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  1. #41
    Senior Member paintmuffin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by norepinephrine View Post
    I think that's it exactly. I have friends who have admitted they suspect I spend my alone time in an underground lair laughing maniacally and plotting world domination. I've explained that I can scheme, and I can plot but being totally ruthless takes too much energy.
    Yeah - I scarcely carry out my schemes.

  2. #42
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu View Post
    I just recalled an old INTP appreciation thread and Sub's comment about associating INTP with intelligence. It's helpful to find primary associations between subjects, but what more is there? He rightfully asked what other qualities there are with INTP in addition to intelligence. I think the thread eventually evolved to finding other qualities, too.

    I've been partly proud, mostly sad for having ENTP seen as basically immoral but successful figures. Is there talk about someone obviously fake, a cheater, a con-artist? Hey there's the ENTP.

    The hegemony on the subject is too great to endure.

    So how does ENTP show the qualities of ENTP without cheating everyone?

    Does the idea of a "giver" apply to ENTP as it does to ENFP, in our popular opinion?

    Personally, I think I go a struggle between some "dark side" and a good one. I love the good feeling of being honest, lawful, direct and open. Then again, not everything I do is good for everyone to know. Some things I do in secret, but I think I'm extremely tuned in to the mores of the society, and find some clever ways to preserve them. I'm a moral guardian, moral libertarian, having some amalgam of morals from many sources. I think I'm good for the society.

    I think my worst part is being a moral liberal by my word and a moral conservative by my actions. I keep good standards internally, but talk about carefree values to most others - perhaps to the detriment of everyone else. I can't be sure what kind of an effect I have. I do not know.

    So, I'm an ENTP and low-mach. Should I consider myself as a normal ENTP or a speciality, the rare ENTP who doesn't betray and manipulate people with his devious plans?

    What about other ENTPs who don't subscribe to the standard of a con-artist? Do we have anything within the MBTI to describe them?
    I usually see ESTP associated with con artists or swindlers more often than ENTP...ENTPs are portrayed as kind of chaotic neutral, to put it in nerdy nerd nerd terms.

    And those long term strategic manipulators you refer to are generally NTJ types (though morally sound NTJs will often direct this toward good works, which is typically really impressive because of the depth and lengths they'll go to.) NTPs, in my experience, don't often care enough to plan that sort of thing out in advance--they just assume their wits and a general conceptual understanding will be enough to guide them.

    Some ENTPs are very giving people who are usually willing to help; they're especially good if you ask for help in one of their pet areas of interest. I think they just enjoy the chance to share knowledge and see if you have any unique perspective to add. I have a feeling most eventually grow into much more understanding people; it just takes time. I hope I will.

    Most ENTPs I've encountered are very loyal to a few certain specific ideals. These ideals are probably different from most people's and that's why there's this image of being manipulative, and in a way they are, but it's less goal-oriented than with NTJs. The motive for it is often just personal amusement or testing one's own abilities, just to see how far the system can be pushed before it breaks, and to know what happens on the other side.

    They're more agents of controlled chaos than of strictly regimented plans for world domination and self-advancement, in my experience.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  3. #43
    Senior Member LostInNerSpace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu View Post
    I think I'm good for the society.
    I can see that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Santtu View Post
    I think my worst part is being a moral liberal by my word and a moral conservative by my actions. I keep good standards internally, but talk about carefree values to most others - perhaps to the detriment of everyone else. I can't be sure what kind of an effect I have. I do not know.
    Believe it or not, me too in some ways. I do have an inner conservative.

    ENTP and INTP don't make plans. We wing our way through life. Take it as it comes. I have no devious plans. I don't seek to manipulate everyone. I am just a survivor. I'm at my best in survival mode, always have been.

    I don't know what is going on here. I don't enjoy this if that's what you think. I don't see why it's even necessary. I think I am a pretty typical INTP. We are just made this way. I think we are hardwired to rebell against authority. It's nothing personal. We don't mean anything by it. The most famous INTP in history said this of authority: "As punishment for my contempt for authority, fate has made me an authority" Albert Einstein.

    ENFPs are actually quite selfish. ENFJs are the givers.

  4. #44
    Once Was Synarch's Avatar
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    ENFP's are so selfish. Like little children, though, so it's typically not very dangerous.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  5. #45
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    ENFP's are so selfish. Like little children, though, so it's typically not very dangerous.
    I personally came up with a new theory. I think they are very pragmatic. And because they are generally very emotional, the combination seems like they are being very selfish.

    I use the things that bug me about enfps, to get an idea of how other people may see me. Its not equal, but the feeling may be equally
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  6. #46
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    sheesh, what is it with necromanced threads these days, involving me in the OP?
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  7. #47
    Senior Member substitute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by digesthisickness View Post
    many people assume that just because you have an ability, and they'd use it as a first choice if they had it (or if they do have the ability and do choose to use it first), that you will too. while others tend to be paranoid and go with their fear, so they worry that you'll do your worst just because you can.
    I can't believe I didn't say way back when, that this post summed up what I thought about the issue very well.
    Ils se d�merdent, les mecs: trop bon, trop con..................................MY BLOG!

    "When it all comes down to dust
    I will kill you if I must
    I will help you if I can" - Leonard Cohen

  8. #48
    Senior Member norepinephrine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LostInNerSpace View Post
    ENTP and INTP don't make plans. We wing our way through life. Take it as it comes. I have no devious plans. I don't seek to manipulate everyone. I am just a survivor. I'm at my best in survival mode, always have been.
    + 5

    There is something intriguing about survival mode. Sleeping on the potential consequences of a particularly bad situation... then waking with a plan.

    Hasn't failed me yet, though I suspect it eventually will. It's similar to kiting checks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Synarch View Post
    It's not a zero sum game. You're still a dork.

  9. #49
    Phoenix Incarnate Sentura's Avatar
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    i understand where you're coming from, but the MBTI lacks dimension in what i call "direction"; i.e. the way a person focuses energy. there are many descriptions and traits in a type, and while most of them may fit between people of the same type, their direction may not.

    would you as a type be more of an entrepreneur starting business, a scholar that tinkers with objects; would you vilify yourself in your search or would you be more helpful towards people on your way to a goal?
    i hunt INXPs for bounty
    FUNCTION ORDER FOR THOSE THAT CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHAT ENXP MEANS: Ne > Ni > Fi=Ti > *

    ...people tell me i have wildfires in my eyes

  10. #50
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    If you want to say Machievellian, INTJs are far more machievellian.
    Yoiu really don't know what they are plotting.

    I suspect Nicolo Machievelli is an INTJ.

    They're more agents of controlled chaos than of strictly regimented plans for world domination and self-advancement, in my experience.
    ummm-no. Plotting to me is as natural aso solving a rubik's cube.
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

    "In this Caesar there are many Mariuses"~Sulla

    Conquer your inner demons first before you conquer the world.

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