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  1. #11
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nemo View Post
    I honestly *never* heard ENTP = Machiavelian con-artist until I came to these forums. Can anyone provide a source for this? (Socionics doesn't count.)
    Well, most of the people who've got sites on typology, also have books out. If they have negative things about any of the types, then everyone who's taken the test and is of that type won't buy the books. It's marketing.



    Personally, I find con-artists abhorrent.

    Supposedly there's some correlation between ENTP and Enneagram type 3s, so maybe that's where all this con-artist nonsense is coming from.

    There are many contradictory statements about ENTPs when you compare some of the talk on these forums to the literature. For instance, one member (I won't name names) theorized that ENPs get their self-esteem from impressing other people, but Lenore Thompson writes of ENTPs:
    In the movie 21, the guy who organizes the whole card counting team is a con artist. He's an ENTP. Plenty of the people in oceans eleven are ENTPs.

    Think of it this way nemo. ENTP is the only one clever enough to pull con's off. Everyone else either has too much of a conscience, or isn't that smart. Not that we always do it.

    I'm not a con-artist. You're obviously not one. How come we don't just drop the stupid stereotypes?
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  2. #12
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nemo View Post
    Do you think the fact that he's "slightly" Machiavellian has anything to do with him being an ENTP?
    Probably not!

    And as rants go that was very civilized.

  3. #13
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    The main character from "Thank You For Smoking" is an ENTP. That's about as Machiavellian as they come. At the same time Doc Emmett Brown ("Back to the Future") and Wesley/Dread Pirate Roberts ("The Princess Bride") are also ENTP. ENTP's come in a variety of flavors.
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
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  4. #14
    Junior Member SweeneyTodd's Avatar
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    I'm an ENTP and I'm not a con artist.

    I'm a good liar, and I do make up tall stories sometimes, mainly just to see if I can convince people. Just for fun. And I do mess with people who I don't care about, like telemarketers and such, but they don't even count as humans.

    Apart from the fact that I like to lie and I'm very good at it, I don't think these stereotypes are true (although that's been established, but to answer your question). The only time I really "manipulate" people, is when I've screwed up and I convince them to like me again.

    It sounds so much cooler when I write it. I'm a loser in real life. *sigh* But I'm not someone who decieves and cheats for my own personal game. That's more of an ENTJ thing. And I don't glue people's furniture the the ceiling either. Of course not *shifty eyes*.


    Nah, it's all BS. They're all just jealous because they can't be ENTPs.

  5. #15
    ~dangerous curves ahead~
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    SweenyTodd, another ENTP?

    Go make an introduction thread!

  6. #16
    you are right mippus's Avatar
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    I'll have a try. Don't shoot me for it.
    What I admire in ENTP's is their sense of humour, their social adaptability and the ease with which they fool around with people, often making them believe the hilarious. They often like to play. And yes, one might wonder what could happen if they would abuse these skills, but that does not make them Macchiavellan. I also like their directness which is often a form of openness. Nicolo wouldn't praise that, I guess...
    Vanitas vanitatum omnia vanitas

  7. #17
    ~dangerous curves ahead~
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    Ok, to answer this properly, Machiavellianism to me requires an intent/purpose to shape according to a desired order. ENTPs are good at getting people to buy in to ideas, by their enthusiasm. It is not a desire for an order to set into place. It is a longing to explore. Machiavellianism is gaming for control.

    For a healthy ENTP, the intent to me is different. The ENTP genuinely believes in his/her ideas, and is good at getting the support to play with the ideas, simply. More often than not, the ENTP is burnt by his own ideas. A machiavellist would have a better instinct of self-protection.

    Any unhealthy type can be manipulative. I'd think the card of manipulation lies with Fe and Te, and the former is the tertiary of the ENTP, while Te does not exist in the first 4.

    So, no. I don't think ENTPs are machiavellian. They are charmers, usually alive, sweet-talkers, enthusiastic and brimming with ideas. Because of that it could appear manipulative to folks who do not understand why they are going along with a dumb idea.

    But the difference is the intent in determining Machiavellianism. A healthy ENTP does not seek to hurt nor to establish his order. Just because you enjoy playing a good hand, doesn't mean you are a cardshark, simply.

  8. #18
    filling some space UnitOfPopulation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LucrativeSid View Post
    I never deceive or harm others for personal gain. If I have to lie, cheat, beg, or steal to get something, then I don't deserve it and I don't want it. I want to be proud of everything I do. I want to be able to tell people about it and show them how I did it and not have to worry about trying to cover anything up. (I do make mistakes but I have no problem admitting to them.) I want to set a good example. I'm probably not the most giving person in the world but I certainly do try to remain fair at all times. I'm not greedy or selfish, although I have no problem watching out for my own best interest. Most of what I plan to do with my life revolves around helping and inspiring other people. I am assertive because I believe it's a crime to let something unjust to happen to me. Not only does it slow me down, but it let's other people think they can get away with it. I have no enemies. When people push me, I push them back just as hard as I have to in order to make them understand that it's not happening again. If I show someone a boundary and they maliciously refuse to respect it, then, and only then, will I aim to crush them. I fight for what it is right, not for personal reasons, so once it's clear that I'm victorious, I will help them back up and probably become their friend or at least find mutual respect.
    Oh my god, you just wrote what could have been my self-written manifesto. Did it really read LucrativeSid and not my name on the side?
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  9. #19
    Rats off to ya! Mort Belfry's Avatar
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    Meesterrrrrr Todd.


    "No one's gonna 'arm you, not while I'm around."
    Why do we always come here?

    I guess we'll never know.

    It's like a kind of torture,
    To have to watch this show.

  10. #20
    ✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿ digesthisickness's Avatar
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    for me, while i'll admit that i definitely have it in me to be very machiavelian, it's not my first inclination. i can do a lot of things, but it doesn't mean any of those things would be my first choice. and, when it comes to that, i have to be driven in some way to go there.

    many people assume that just because you have an ability, and they'd use it as a first choice if they had it (or if they do have the ability and do choose to use it first), that you will too. while others tend to be paranoid and go with their fear, so they worry that you'll do your worst just because you can.
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