[NT] Whats the deal with NTP's and conspiracy theories

[Penguin]

so i know quite a lot of people that believe in conspiracy theories to a varying degree, and most of them are NTP's (say 4-5 of them).
the universal one is "secret Freemason guild that rules the world", and then some other conspiracy theories such as "9/11 was done by the americans on purpose so they had cassus belli against AFghanistan/Irak" or "the financial crisis was purposefully created"

whilst these theories don't bother me very much, i fail to see why anyone, especially NTP's, would believe in them. in my opinion believing in such theories makes the need to search for answers redundant.

for example: I ask: "I wonder if political and fiscal unity for the EU will help its sovereign debt problem". he says "the Freemasons won't allow it, they want the EU to blow up and buy up they're economies and turn the EU states into personal fiefdoms."

WTH? In my opinion people who believe in such conspiracy theories narrow themselves a lot, because instead of trying to enhance one's knowledge and answer these questions by his own, he uses these theories as universal truths and so he doesn't learn anything new, and also pisses off his conversation partner.

And it is very surprising because of all types NTP's should shoot these theories down on sight.
I guess that they feel more confident and knowledgeable when they use the conspiracy theory card in a debate, especially with me since i don't argue with people that believe in them since i don't consider it to be worth my time.

 

[entropie]

Because logic and reality is boring

 

[nanook]

>believing in such theories makes the need to search for answers redundant.

carl jung explains the difference between negative and positive thinking. positive thinking seeks understanding and therefore creates it, negative thinking uses the next best theories like it's just a label, to put something aside. jung mentions the example of believing that a psychic phenomenon happens due to vibrations of the astral-body, when no one know what an astral body is or what vibrations mean/imply (i.e. good or bad, and why).

jung also says that irrational (perception led) types are often unable to use their secondary judge-mental function in a positive way. negative is the default. he says this about the people he knew at his time. people with little education, little mental challenge in a calm simple world.

in my view its almost always true for average people and for intelligent people it's true for like roughly the first twenty years of their lives.

also it's a gradual thing. the ability to willingly use you secondary function in a verry exellent procative/positive way does not mean, you do this by default, whenever you form an opinion about a subject.

but i am not saying that all conspiracy theories are examples of negative thinking. more importantly i will say that rejecting conspiracy theories might just as likely be an example of negative thinking.

 

[Beargryllz]

My name is Beargryllz and I love theory

Some theories are conspiracy theories

 

[Penguin]

more importantly i will say that rejecting conspiracy theories might just as likely be an example of negative thinking.

beautiful.

"for intelligent people it's true for like roughly the first twenty years of their lives. " from what i know the secondary function starts to develop in ones early 20's, is it related?

 

[nanook]

>from what i know the secondary function starts to develop

certainly 'positive' usage of a function must be a product of some form of development, or else babies would invent Faust. no one has really precise understanding of what happens there, so to some degree its maybe an example of negative thinking (of simple labeling) to state, that a "function begins to develop", just because it's product become shaped in such a way that they are appreciated or just recognized by the observer. the latter is simply an observation, the former sounds smart. not saying there is something wrong with speaking this way. i suppose we all do it all the time. we couldn't seriously avoid it, so there is no point in hating it.

 

[JocktheMotie]

IME it's usually INxJ 6s. YOU MINDLESS SLAVES.

 

[jimrckhnd]

I actually make it a point to debunk conspiracy theories. They are riddled with logical inconsistencies, gaps in information and sometimes flat bad information which makes it impossible for my logical self to not to correct them much less take them seriously. Moreover, the peddlers of these things have a tendency to go into orbit when you point out the holes in their world view – it really is kind of amusing.

 

[StrawMan]

Because logic and reality is boring

This. And Alien-freemason-Al-Qaida theories tickle Ne very nicely.

 

[Octarine]

I'm not sure if it is strictly type related, but I do wonder about the psychology involved. There was a thread about types and conspiracy theories a while back. Likewise, one on INTJforum.

It seems to be partly due to a defect in separating between imagination, and that which is based on observable evidence. (It is true that conspiracies can be fun to speculate about)
It seems conspiracy theorists fall into familiar traps such as confirmation bias and the like.

I just found an interesting article on why people believe in conspiracy theories here: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=why-people-believe-in-conspiracies

Are the patterns involved in belief of conspiracy theories substantially different from belief in other ideologies and religions?

In terms of my personal belief, I prefer to assume the world is run by a bunch of mostly incompetent people who obtained their roles mostly by coincidence and good fortune. (or chaos and complexity..)

 

[Riva]

I've never really been interested too much in conspiracy theories. Except for the moon landing. Oh, that was a classic.

Unless unless, I am creating the theory. I do this often as I go along .

But I have never really been interested in prevailing political conspiracy theories.

 

[CzeCze]

I don't think it's INTPs who are into conspiracy theories, it's INTJ's dood.

If an INTP does have a pet 'conspiracy theory' I get the feeling it's more just kicking around an idea for giggles and 'what if'. It's the Ne playing. Though because it's Ti leading it doesn't seem as truly playful as when an ENTP is just throwing out ideas. I used to be big in conspiracy theories when I was a teenager to early 20s. I think it's the Ne running rampant.

 

[Octarine]

I don't think it's INTPs who are into conspiracy theories, it's INTJ's dood.

I don't know, you might be in on the conspiracy!
I see what you are doing!

 

[CzeCze]

I don't know, you might be in on the conspiracy!
Trying to redirect attention away from the INTPs!

Do you really need glasses???



And are you really orange????

HAHA! Who's got the other shoe on the foot...shoe...now?

 

[funkadelik]

I totally think you're just creating a conspiracy theory about NTPs being into conspiracy theory.

I'll out you yet! I swear to it. Just...gotta...get some data first...

 

[five]

Ne produces possibilities.

Ti is not grounded in reality.

= Conspiracy.

 

[redcheerio]

I agree it's Ne + Ti. Sometimes it's just for the fun of throwing various ideas and theories around, and sometimes it's because Ne + Ti + negativity = paranoia.

A good reminder for me is this:

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

However, sometimes our paranoia is correct (small scale paranoia) because we often accidentally piss people off and provoke their wrath. So if we are unaware of having pissed them off, slowing recognizing their wrath and passive aggressive revenge comes as a shock because we don't understand where it came from, inciting further paranoia.

 

[Stanton Moore]

It's not just NTPs. my friend is an INTJ and believes some of that WTC bullshit.

 

[King sns]

I don't think it's NTP's, I think it can be malfunctioning N all around- so if someone's an ISFP with this extreme case of Ni-rrhea, they may have a theory related to their own town's government, workplace, or school system. Something set in their minds related to money or ulterior motives. Seems like these circular theories are just a way of the human mind trying to lump everything bad that happens into a "grand explanation." It's really no different than trying to find say, a unified theory of the universe- It's just more negative. Difficult to break out of those all or nothing thinking patterns sometimes.

 

[Stanton Moore]

Honestly, I think it has to do with popular media, movies especially.
Remember the movie 'Enemy of the State'? that's the kind thing I'm talking about. People get it in their head that there are organizations in the world that are almost omniscient in their power. Anything that can’t be explained directly through video evidence points to the workings of some secret force, government, cabal. Yet the US Govt couldn't get Bin Laden for 9 years. I’ll bet there’s a theory about that too…
So yeah, it’s people’s over-active imaginations at work.