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  1. #71
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyk View Post
    If any of my peers had a degree, I would suddenly think extremely highly of them. My peers are 18. It would be damned impressive.
    I started uni when I'd just turned 17, finished at 20. In retrospect I was very young!
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  2. #72
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    17-21 for a four year degree. I seriously considered applying at 16, because I hated high school, but my school and mother advised against it. Some thing about peer groups, and me being socially disconnected.
    Quite amusing, since I loved the social aspect of uni. Mind you, I guess nobody but my year 8 English teacher (who bless her cotton socks said nobody would get my humour until I went to uni) Thought that I'd actually be kinda popular there.
    It was the first place I ever really belonged.

    There in lies the rub, and the point where I have to say, uni was the first place I encountered people as intelligent as I, if not more so. I knew a few monkeys too though. And I've met more since, where I suspect they just paid for a peice of paper saying they have a degree.
    Unfortunately, wether people like it or not, most people have to go through the process of a degree to prove they have some smarts. Unless you are lucky enough to work for a company that recognizes your abilities (and yeah, that happens) or you are discovered.
    Two of the smartest people I know, never obtained a degree (one an INTP, and oddly enough one I suspect is a INFP). The INTP was truly brilliant, but was held back in his career, because he didn't have the magic piece of paper. Personally I think the company was run by very stupid people, who couldn't get past his poor social skills. He was really quite sweet, and very lonely. The INFP was also amazing too, but excruciatingly sensitive (I thought I was sensitive), and communicated with several very well known intellectuals, whose names escape me. I thought he was pulling my leg, until he showed me! pee'd my my pants I did. One day when he finially comes out his shell, I have no doubts he will write a book or books that will blow every one's mind.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
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  3. #73
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    man you peeps are quick in degreeing. i started school at age 7 and finished higher school regulary after 13 years, at age 20. Then I had to do 1 year of civil service cause I was to lazy and regulary too stoned to go to the army. After that i started to study German and English Literature Studies for 1 year. Then at age 22 I started to study mechanical engineering, which takes about 5 years regulary, but most normal people need 6 when you are doing internships and working parttime. I'll need 7 cause I rather like working fulltime next to university and am too lazy to learn . You have to write around 6 - 8, 2 - 3 hour long exams per semester and you basically never manage to pass em all, so it always takes a year longer.

    So'll have my masters degree at age 29, I want to move to America my country sucks, too much work here
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  4. #74
    Senior Member bcubchgo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    I knew a 45 year old who didn't even finish high school, is very intelligent and self-educated in many ways. A good person to have discussions about literature and art and so on with, at least up to a point. However - it was a guy I was interested in, and I also discovered eventually that he was very insecure. I have a bachelors' degree and although I think he was at least somewhat attracted to me, I later realised that there was almost no way he would date a woman who has a lot more education than he does. He's kind of a power/control freak and likes to keep people in inferior/dependent positions. Also, in retrospect, although I liked the fact that he was self-educated in so many ways, and he had managed to become financially successful, I'm not so impressed by the fact that he never went back and at least finished school. I think he had reasons to drop out due to his family being poor and needing to work and so on, but I would view it at least as a positive thing initiative-wise to go back and finish school. With this individual I wondered if it was a sort of reverse snobbery thing where he might consider himself too good for that.
    I think there are many people for whom this is true simply because when you are poor and uneducated the most effective way to prove your meddle is to use the power of brute force. The more stubborn you are the less you actually have to try to use your intellect to prove your point to people - and potentially fail. It's also harder to fail when you are in that situation because you have nothing to back yourself up with. I do think you are right about there being an element of reverse discrimination simply because it's a good way to bolster yourself if you need reaffirmation.
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  5. #75
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcubchgo View Post
    I think there are many people for whom this is true simply because when you are poor and uneducated the most effective way to prove your meddle is to use the power of brute force. The more stubborn you are the less you actually have to try to use your intellect to prove your point to people - and potentially fail. It's also harder to fail when you are in that situation because you have nothing to back yourself up with. I do think you are right about there being an element of reverse discrimination simply because it's a good way to bolster yourself if you need reaffirmation.
    Yes, good points. I do admire people who have made things happen for themselves through guts and determination. I don't like it though when it becomes anti-intellectualism or defensiveness or insecurity when confronted with those who have more education and so on, or when it's implied that people such as myself are spoiled (my parents were exceptionally careful not to spoil us) or that I am what I am purely because of being middle class.

    Also, I think the above-mentioned guy is ESTJ, and while ESTJs can be great, in this sort of scenario I think it exacerbates all those power/control/awareness of social class/reverse snobbery tendencies.
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  6. #76
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    man you peeps are quick in degreeing. i started school at age 7 and finished higher school regulary after 13 years, at age 20. Then I had to do 1 year of civil service cause I was to lazy and regulary too stoned to go to the army. After that i started to study German and English Literature Studies for 1 year. Then at age 22 I started to study mechanical engineering, which takes about 5 years regulary, but most normal people need 6 when you are doing internships and working parttime. I'll need 7 cause I rather like working fulltime next to university and am too lazy to learn . You have to write around 6 - 8, 2 - 3 hour long exams per semester and you basically never manage to pass em all, so it always takes a year longer.

    So'll have my masters degree at age 29, I want to move to America my country sucks, too much work here
    Yeah here it's kinda similar, high school ends at 19 and you basically can't skip grades even if you're really good. Plus, professors still think that university should be an elite institution, thus they always set the number of people that will pass an exam at around 30-40 %, thus you rarely manage to pass all of them at the right time. Thank god though I wasn't forced to enter the army (I was born one year late).

    Also, I think the above-mentioned guy is ESTJ, and while ESTJs can be great, in this sort of scenario I think it exacerbates all those power/control/awareness of social class/reverse snobbery tendencies.
    Just for the record, I come from a family which I guess could be considered as lower middle class or working class and did not pay for my university education, but I've always been very intellectual since I was a child. I worked through university to pay my expenses, it wasn't really such a big effort, we're not in the middle ages and most kind of jobs are easy and relaxing...
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  7. #77
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post

    Just for the record, I come from a family which I guess could be considered as lower middle class or working class and did not pay for my university education, but I've always been very intellectual since I was a child. I worked through university to pay my expenses, it wasn't really such a big effort, we're not in the middle ages and most kind of jobs are easy and relaxing...
    People are different. Different inclinations by personality, by background, etc...

    I certainly don't look down on people who haven't been to uni, it would be very wrong of me considering that I have many friends who are in that category. I think most of my feelings around this subject have to do with people's attitudes, not what they've achieved in terms of education and/or career. I find many things to admire in many different kinds of people. But I can tell you this, I don't like it when people think others are inferior because they have less education, a more "menial" job, or whatever; and I also don't like it when people with less education than me, a more "menial" job etc think that *I* am looking down on them, or I'm an intellectual who doesn't live in the real world, or I'm spoiled, or that desk jobs aren't an honest days work like manual labour (I have actually heard people say this crap.)

    In general I certainly do admire people who have made things happen for themselves, as I admit I am not great with that. I am very much a product of my family in a lot of ways (though different from them in others), so it's hard for me to picture what I would be like if I came from a background with (for instance) little interest in culture and not much money. But I admit I am not naturally all that motivated unless it is something I'm really passionate about (and I do have a lot of passions...)
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  8. #78
    Post Human Post Qlip's Avatar
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    So, basically everything on this thread points to a degree as an indicator of an intellegence of probably at least average, depending on educational system and degree. And I'll argue that not having a degree indicates nothing at all as far as intellegence is concerned.

    I consider myself traditionally intelligent. I'm quite sure I would've been able to achieve a computer science degree, or maybe engineering degree, which is what I would've done if I had some better beginnings. What I did is dropped out of High School at 16, got my GED immediately then got a two year technical degree, and have been working as a computer programmer since I was 19. I *could* go back to school, but honestly, I'd rather just do things that I'm interested in on my own time. I don't like to define myself by the way I happen to earn money, and I'm not excited at all at having to sit through a bunch of classess that are besides the point of what I'm interested it. And I don't feel socially, intellectually, or in anyway less of a person because of my education level.

  9. #79
    Senior Member Xyk's Avatar
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    I figure I'll post something a little more useful in addition to jokes.

    I started college (university) just last week. After a quick hurdle with chicken pox, I finally went to my first class where I learned stuff yesterday. It was awesome. I now know so much more about the ancient Somerian civilization. I really think four years of college is going to be quite enjoyable and rewarding. I don't think I would educate myself this thoroughly without going to college. In that regard, I would not have been as knowledgeable, or probably as intelligent without going through college and coming out with a degree.
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  10. #80
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    The people you know getting a PhD not planning to teach, what are they planning to do? I agree it's a lot of money to spend on something you're just interested in, with little practical purpose!

    Lots of professions have PHDs engineers, Marketing, research, economics,civil service, strategy consulting is full of them etc. lots of intellectual roles.

    I've worked with loads of phds some better than others - are they way ahead of the rest... a bit but not much.

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