[NT] Degree = intelligence?

[jimrckhnd]

"However, there is an aspect to an actual credentile that can not be overlooked - its the demonstrated ability to manage one's time, do that which one may not be all that enthusiastic about and actually complete a project."

Maybe for yourself it cannot be overlooked, but as I quite clearly stated in the above, it (concerning myself) can and is overlooked.

Then you are making an analytical error. That is part of that process of getting a degree. The fact that you overlook it does not mean that value does not in fact exist.

 

[ceecee]

I feel there is a correlation between a college degree and intelligence. Is it the total deciding factor between me thinking you are smart or a dumbass? No. But it matters, I won't deny that.

 

[jimrckhnd]

I ask, have you ever been in a college class? There are a bunch of idiots in those tuition-ed rooms. Me included. A degree doesn't tell me anything more than you have endurance. For all I know, you cheated those four or so years - or worse, barely passed trying your best. Now, keep this within reason, because I'm talking about a Bachelors degree. The American education system weeds out bums at a certain point, whether financially or mentally, and PhD are telling. But have you ever had a dentist who ruined your teeth? Yeah, exactly.

Outside the more elite institutions one can indeed find a collection of howler monkeys in any given class room. That has something to do with maturity and the spirit of the age but it also does have something to do with the American system of extending the chance of a college education as broadly as possible.

In your typical "ESU" on the undergraduate level particularly the student does tend to get out of it about what they put in. Which is to say by hard work and attention one can get a pretty good education at large mid ranked schools. On the other hand you can essentially be a drunken idiot for four (or five or six) years and eventually get a sheepskin. In what? That is another matter. In my view that 2.5 student who spent 5 years getting a degree in "business" and ended up in the State Farm office might well have been better served going straight there to begin with. That was, of course, their decision. On the other hand... I have a colleague who came from a jerk water town in the Ohio Valley and busted his hump as an undergrad in a football factory school and did well enough to go on and get his PhD at Stanford. I’d be willing to bet he puts a pretty high value on his diploma.

 

[5231311252]

Then you are making an analytical error. That is part of that process of getting a degree. The fact that you overlook it does not mean that value does not in fact exist.

Who said it doesn't exist? Just because one has a degree does not mean one has the ability to manage one's time.

 

[jimrckhnd]

I feel there is a correlation between a college degree and intelligence. Is it the total deciding factor between me thinking you are smart or a dumbass? No. But it matters, I won't deny that.

It is what is known in the intelligence business as an "indicator". Not definitive in and of itself - but suggestive.

 

[jimrckhnd]

Who said it doesn't exist? Just because one has a degree does not mean one has the ability to manage one's time.

Hrm... confusing. It appears that the first part of your post suggests that it does exist. But the last part seems to contradict.

Moreover, I clearly said "the demonstrated ability to manage one's time" and to the extent that one has to show and complete work on time for a period of apx. four years is true enough. Which in no way suggests that they will forever after actually do so – but that is another matter.

 

[Nicodemus]

Unless you want to study natural sciences (which may require some use of expensive instruments), attending a university is no longer necessary to be educated. I also find that autodidacts are usually more interesting people. So, while education and intelligence do matter, an academic degree or education does not.

 

[5231311252]

Hrm... confusing. It appears that the first part of your post suggests that it does exist. But the last part seems to contradict.

I'm almost willing to say that value is relative in all situations, but then I have to consider vital substances like water. In my first post I stated why I was attending university and IMO it denotes that society or job offering corporations value degrees. Even stating that degrees are overpriced pieces of toilet paper could denote that it has value. However I am not anyone else, so when a question is asked of what I think on a subject I am going to answer accordingly.

Moreover, I clearly said "the demonstrated ability to manage one's time" and to the extent that one has to show and complete work on time for a period of apx. four years is true enough. Which in no way suggests that they will forever after actually do so – but that is another matter.

Yes and I clearly saw that, but it does not mean they had the ability to manage their time. I know all too well that one can not have the ability to manage their time and pass either not showing any work at all or not completing it. Then again, the definition of "managing" one's time is often subjective.

 

[jimrckhnd]

Unless you want to study natural sciences (which may require some use of expensive instruments), attending a university is no longer necessary to be educated. I also find that autodidacts are usually more interesting people. So, while education and intelligence do matter, an academic degree or education does not.

I concur with your opinion re; natural sciences. In the relatively recent past it was mostly men of wealth and leisure that could conduct sustained research. The financial requirements have not gone down since then, if anything, they have gone up. While I'm all for self study (I do alot of it myself both in area and out of area) you simply can't teach yourself how run a mass spec unless you own one (and even then for technical reasons relating to standards you probably can't) and those aren't cheap instruments to buy, run and maintain. The increasingly interdisciplinary nature of research just adds to the complexity. And no amount of self study can substitute for interacting with your peers - you simply gain insights from them that are not really possible flying solo.

I'd also like to point out that learning things on your own is more likely to result in knowledge gaps (often it is hard to know what you don't know) and may not be as efficient as formal training. For those who claim that classes are not an efficient way to provide knowledge I'd suggest that 1) they have progressed past what formal training can offer - in which case they shouldn't be doing it or a budding Einstein, 2) they are not taking advantage of what the class has to offer or 3) they are taking crappy classes.

I'd extend your observation past the natural sciences and into large segments of engineering, materials science, and even some mathematics.

 

[foxonstilts]

Degree =/= Intelligence.
Degree=/=Work Ability/Ethic.

You can be as smart as you want, but if you want a degree, you (generally, I'd hate for people to pipe in with their "ACTUALLY MINE WAS SUPER EASY NEVER WROTE A PAPER" stories) have to work for it. If you're smart, it makes it easier, yes, but you still have to do some work. If you're not smart, you have to work even harder. I know plenty of brilliant people who flunked out of college because they couldn't apply themselves and others who are as dumb as a rock and yet still manage to graduate with a top degree.

That's why companies hire people with degrees, even if they're in a completely different field. It shows that you can commit to something and work hard for x number of years, and those skills are valuable in any field.

 

[Octarine]

How about if you came across someone who gave up their dreams for an education? Would the same line of thinking apply?

Perhaps...

 

[violet_crown]

Just curious about how everyone here in the NT section views the importance of a university education.

So...if you met someone who hasn't gotten a university degree by, say, age 40 would you think less of them? Would there be a moment where you might consider them to be less intelligent regardless of whether this was the truth or not?

What does a university education mean to you when it comes to your own worth or the worth of another individual?

I don't think lacking a college degree indicates a person is stupid. A lot of people never go to college; more never finish. I think it might make it more difficult to be successful in a professional field later in life. Not everyone has those kinds of goals, though.

 

[entropie]

a university degree makes you sexy for woman thats why I am doing it. Only problem that I didnt consider beforehand: woman dont think engineers are sexy xD

 

[shoshana]

a university degree makes you sexy for woman thats why I am doing it. Only problem that I didnt consider beforehand: woman dont think engineers are sexy xD

depends on the engineering field. mechanical/software/environmental engineers = very sexy

you have the opportunity to gain knowledge from university directly from supposed experts in the fields of study that you are interested in. this could (but is not necessarily) be easier than navigating your way through vast amounts of research publications and conflicting/outdated textbook information.

more importantly you can get a shiny piece of paper that certain employers might value. however, there are many many people who waste a university education and end up with nothing to show for it or end up working a job they could have easily gotten without a $80,000 liberal arts degree.

buf for some jobs, engineering is a good example, if you have not yet passed a licensing exam decent grades in an accredited program is really the only way to get the job that you desire. univeristy is an expensive tool that is only utilized properly by a minority on any account.

but on a different note i dont believe that knowledge is the same thing as intelligence ergo a degree cannot be any measure of intellect. the whole idea pisses me off. do you know how many pre-med students i've met who cheat on absolutely every fucking test?

end of rant

 

[xisnotx]

My definition of intelligence is basically realizing what your values are, what your goals are, who you are, and living your life in such a way in order to hopefully maximize the chances of being where you want to be, with the realization that you will never actually never "completely" be where you would like to be (since, if everyone was being honest with themselves their hopes and dreams are ultimately limited by reality). It's also realizing that this realization (while fundamental) means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Given my definition of intelligence a college degree has very little to do with anything. Both of my parents are pretty educated and I would consider them less "intelligent" than starving artists, mainstream rappers, actors, nurses, second rate athletes etc (in general, of course). Talking to most of my professors, I don't consider them any more intelligent than my parents either. As a whole the "educated" don't seem particularly bright, to be honest...I have an uncle who is some sort of professor and he honestly pisses me off sometimes for being so ignorant.

Although, I would say that I have a tendency to think that everyone should have gone to college and probably even grad school unless they had a very compelling reason not to.

 

[Ginkgo]

Just curious about how everyone here in the NT section views the importance of a university education.

So...if you met someone who hasn't gotten a university degree by, say, age 40 would you think less of them? Would there be a moment where you might consider them to be less intelligent regardless of whether this was the truth or not?

What does a university education mean to you when it comes to your own worth or the worth of another individual?

No. Credentials don't speak for skills or abilities such as intelligence. In fact, sometimes we allow our true skills to atrophy in the comfort of professional credentials.

 

[bcubchgo]

In either case it depends on how you apply the knowledge you gain in a real world type scenario. Being smart and educated is one thing, but it's much more impressive if the information is used measurably. I have little respect for people who have degrees if they have done nothing to show for it beyond gain it. Impress me with your implementation not your idealism.

 

[Jaq]

Degree = Industrious/hardworking <- rings true in America
I do not consider academics when I attempt to get an idea of someone's intellect.

 

[tinkerbell]

For me there is a huge difference between intelligence and education. I left high school with lots of light weight qualifications and few strong ones (mainly because of the culture of the school), and I didn't go to university for a good few years, but went to nursing school. Eventually went to uni and got a first class degree.

Did I suddenly become more intelligent because I was studying? NO of course not, but it confirmed to me I was bright. University provided me with a framework for expression and to an extent on how to approach things. So an education gives you skills however it definitely doesn't make you more intelligent.

If you are sifting through a lot of people, having a degree allows you to say - yes this person has an education which has a minor degree of correlation to intelligent. I will still hire people without a degree if I can see they are smart, I don't use degree's as ultimate screener. One of my best ever staff has no degree and one of my best ever boss also has no degree. Both have very high levels of intelligence.

That said, I do screen men on degree, but mainly as a short hand and not as an absolute... that said I'm dating a guy with an MA... but it wasn't a requirement, the quality of the mind is more important to me, he is an ENFJ and really high EQ from what I can see.

 

[funkadelik]

Degree = Industrious/hardworking

Interesting....couldn't you say the same of someone who has applied themselves to learn a skilled trades job (such as an electrician or plumber)?