[INTJ] INTJ's - do you feel you unintentionally create argument?

[istar11]

Hi,

I've noticed that I often attract argumentative responses from people. Maybe I'm just inherently annoying and people just feel compelled to set me straight, but often I feel that simple remarks I make (usually commentary), provoke others to disagree with me. This has always happened with me, but I'm noticing it more and more now. I suspect it is because I come off as unintentionally authoritative on a subject (talking out of my ass?). I try to command my language precisely when around others.

Do any INTJ's or perhaps INTP's specifically identify with this? Is this an INTX thing, at all? Do you ever get taken aback by people's responses to what you think are perfectly reasonable statements that require no further clarification or argument?

I ask because the INTJ's in my life I have identified with, and respect in many ways. I have been tested by others (not by myself) as being INTJ, even though I self-test as an INFP. I have never thought that was right, but who knows. I know the two share some functions.

I used to feel that I may be an INFP with Asperger's Syndrome, but I took the AQ and only scored marginally above the average (23).

So...I guess I'm just looking for clues into my personality, and I really appreciate any help from any NT's out there.

Anybody feel this way on a regular basis? Being misunderstood, in a hostile/antagonistic way?

Thank you

Luke

 

[Nicodemus]

Yes, it happens. Usually in these cases my jokes are not recognized as such and I am criticized for saying, or asked why I said, something strange or rude. Often the situation can be dissolved quite easily, but sometimes the offended will not let go of his misjudgment; then argument ensues.

 

[Fluffywolf]

Yes, it happens. Usually in these cases my jokes are not recognized as such and I am criticized for saying, or asked why I said, something strange or rude. Often the situation can be dissolved quite easily, but sometimes the offended will not let go of his misjudgment; then argument ensues.

Same for me!

I've also been in these mind melds with people, where I personally thought we were just pitching our own personal perspective back and forth about some grey subject in order to potentially come up with something better at the end of it, just harmless thought juggling! But then after some time, usually a minute or two, they're all like angry and shits at how arguementative and close minded I am. And I'm like, what did I miss? :O

 

[Nicodemus]

I've also been in these mind melds with people, where I personally thought we were just pitching our own personal perspective back and forth about some grey subject in order to potentially come up with something better at the end of it, just harmless thought juggling! But then after some time, usually a minute or two, they're all like angry and shits at how arguementative and close minded I am. And I'm like, what did I miss? :O

It often happens to me that people just agree with me when I try to have a discussion. Very unfulfilling.

 

[Fluffywolf]

It often happens to me that people just agree with me when I try to have a discussion. Very unfulfilling.

That not so much for us INTP's, we often go outside of peoples comfort zones with our Ne. But at least we do share the sense of unfulfillment.

 

[goats]

Yes this usually happens when I make a statement and someone perceives it the wrong way and conclude that I am trying to argue with them. I'm kinda used to it. Usually I find NFs take things way too personally.

 

[ThatGirl]

Maybe you have an unbalanced third chakra too.

 

[Not_Me]

I don't perceive debate itself as being something negative or unfriendly. It's just interaction to me.

 

[shoshana]

I don't perceive debate itself as being something negative or unfriendly. It's just interaction to me.

same for me. and often i am the one who is knowingly turning an innocent comment into a more spirited conversation

 

[EJCC]

I've seen pretty much every Te/Fi or Fi/Te-using type accidentally create an argument by making a blunt statement of what they think about something and therefore offending someone who thinks the opposite -- or provoking someone to call them on their bullshit -- when all they'd meant was just to say what they think and continue on with the conversation.

With INTx types, I've seen what Fluffywolf and Nicodemus have been talking about -- making jokes so dry that people think they're serious.

 

[mrcockburn]

This happens to me, an I'm the opposite of INTJ. It must be a functions thing. The worst is when people attack you for standing up for yourself. It's like they want to put you in your place.

[MENTION=4384]ThatGirl[/MENTION] - can you elaborate more on the Third Chakra... Saw you mention it before and am curious.

 

[mrcockburn]

I don't perceive debate itself as being something negative or unfriendly. It's just interaction to me.

Same here. I'm one of those people that will attack IDEAS and *arguments* viciously - but my opinion of the person is irrelevant and unchanging. I'm happy to go out for a drink with someone right after a bloodshedding debate on abortion.

Don't see why people automatically bring in personal attacks into arguments over something else.

 

[Coriolis]

INTJ's - do you feel you unintentionally create argument?

Sometimes I create it on purpose.

Anybody feel this way on a regular basis? Being misunderstood, in a hostile/antagonistic way?

When I was younger - middle school and high school - this happened quite often. Once I got to college, grad school, and work, I found myself among much more like-minded people, and it happens rarely now.

 

[ThatGirl]

This happens to me, an I'm the opposite of INTJ. It must be a functions thing. The worst is when people attack you for standing up for yourself. It's like they want to put you in your place.

[MENTION=4384]ThatGirl[/MENTION] - can you elaborate more on the Third Chakra... Saw you mention it before and am curious.

No problem. The third chakra apparently deals with power, both internally, and your place in the world (how you relate and interact with your environment). Apparently when your third chakra is unbalanced, you find yourself at odds and out of sync with your environment. Your actions elicit competition and aggression rather than cooperation, which is the sign of a balanced chakra. It is about knowing how to assert your will while still remaining in harmony with your surroundings. Never asserting too much, too little, choosing your battles sort of thing. Participating in the world without being of the world, or something.

I just read a beginner book on it, but thought it was really interesting as the chakras seem to pertain to emotional control and maturity. Sort of like the hierarchy of emotional needs. You can google it more in depth, but watch out for those hippie descriptions which are borderline delusional. Woooo! Superpowers!

 

[Jwill]

I had this problem when I was younger. As I got older, I learned how to be a little more tactful with people. Sometimes I create arguments around me on purpose, though.

 

[uncommonentity]

I may unintentionally create mass hysteria, confusion and give or take a few total and utter mental breakdowns but never an argument.

 

[nanook]

i would ask people to consider a new perspective on a topic (or methodical approach to a problem) , and they would perceive it as an attack, because they are single-minded as in: "there can be only one perspective/approach" so they interpret my begging for another perspective to mean that their perspective is wrong, and so they feel compelled to argue, that my perspective is at least superfluous, if not wrong, and that their perspective in indispensable and so on ... it's like they are conservatively harmony seeking (harmony as in: i know it all, everything is under control) and then they have to "argue" for their weird sense of harmony. and i just have a natural desire to pierce through this kind of 'harmony'. through the conventional ways. they just bore me. at the least. but my desire is just constructive. i'm a seeker. i don't mean to destroy anything or take anything away, just add more complexity, because it's good. (i can see, how i would react to myself in just the same way. on a bad day.)

 

[Andy]

Hi,

I've noticed that I often attract argumentative responses from people. Maybe I'm just inherently annoying and people just feel compelled to set me straight, but often I feel that simple remarks I make (usually commentary), provoke others to disagree with me. This has always happened with me, but I'm noticing it more and more now. I suspect it is because I come off as unintentionally authoritative on a subject (talking out of my ass?). I try to command my language precisely when around others.

Do any INTJ's or perhaps INTP's specifically identify with this? Is this an INTX thing, at all? Do you ever get taken aback by people's responses to what you think are perfectly reasonable statements that require no further clarification or argument?

I ask because the INTJ's in my life I have identified with, and respect in many ways. I have been tested by others (not by myself) as being INTJ, even though I self-test as an INFP. I have never thought that was right, but who knows. I know the two share some functions.

I used to feel that I may be an INFP with Asperger's Syndrome, but I took the AQ and only scored marginally above the average (23).

So...I guess I'm just looking for clues into my personality, and I really appreciate any help from any NT's out there.

Anybody feel this way on a regular basis? Being misunderstood, in a hostile/antagonistic way?

Thank you

Luke

I'm pretty good at avoiding arguements. Which is nice, because I hate them.

 

[Adasta]

Usually I find NFs take things way too personally.

We find you oddly robotic.

 

[Adasta]

I had this problem when I was younger. As I got older, I learned how to be a little more tactful with people. Sometimes I create arguments around me on purpose, though.

I find INTJ arguments can go like this:

INTJ [quizzical]: Don't you think it's X rather than Y?
Me: No, I think Y is more accurate. It seems more accurate to me.
INTJ [pressing]: But why?
Me: I dunno. I just feel that it's more plausible. Both options have logical premises, so I can't dismiss them on that basis. Therefore, I choose these one for these reasons...
INTJ [thinking]: Ok.
Me: What do you think?
INTJ: Well, it's difficult to say either way.

Why were you pursuing your line of argument so aggressively if you can't actually commit to it?

To be honest, I know why they do it, but it can be frustrating. Sometimes when an INTJ gets the bit between their teeth, I simply can't be bothered with it all. I usually steer the conversation to something more conducive to theoretical imaginings rather than "If X is not Y and Y is not Z is X Z? Hmm, not sure. Must ponder this further".