[MBTI General] Are there any NT/NFs you would consider "stupid?"

[rav3n]

I already did by saying only stupid people would argue.. I like shooting myself in the foot, makes me feel alive.

Same here, hence why I responded!

 

[NegativeZero]

Too many to fucking count.

 

[Kierva]

Of course.

There are some Ns that go around spreading misinformed interpretations of Jung and claiming it to be true; some of it makes sense, some of it doesn't.

Some of them are just full of unverified claims. (in other words, shit)

 

[Qlip]

Well I've definitely run into several who are not as smart as me as far as that analytic type of thinking goes. I'm using myself as a gauge, not because I think I'm wickedly intelligent, but because, well I'm the only thing to go by, don't flame me, I meet plenty of people smarter than me too. I notice the NTs who feel that it's important to their ego to be smart, but can't quite make the grade attempt to control the battleground for arguments, or end up resorting trying to get somebodies goat when things aren't going their way. Other NT's that aren't as egotastic seem to be on the chill side and more exploratory and participatory.

NFs, I dunno.. they have a different thing going.

 

[Jessica]

sup in here, somebody call?

 

[sculpting]

I am going to be stupid and argue about the definition of stupid for a bit LOL.

I've definitely met iNtuitives I would not consider smart. Most have been ENFPs, but ENFPs are the iNtuitives I've come across the most IRL. I knew an INTJ who was not that bright. He was good at math (but not in any other academic area), but otherwise a bit slow, and completely out of touch with reality in a way that made him seem dull-witted over all.

I would be cautious about classifying young INTJs as stupid, as they can be decidedly..weird and obtuse and engage in the Ni ranbling...I'd almost argue they are still building contexts to evaluate the world, thus they really begin to shine once past 30...

When considering EXFPs, when young, you are dealing with pure perception-action and speech before thought-the only thing holding it in check is a pretty gooey Fi. Thus they wonder around trying to "feel-in-the-moment" to solve logistical problems and can be TOTALLY oblivious. I have no idea how my 15 yo ENFP son has survived this long....however by about 25 or 30, most enfps have a bigger Te toolbox and can be more rational.

Is this stupidity that one grows out of over time?

If it helps, I'll use personal examples of stupid people I came across in high school: lack common sense, low vocabulary skills, lack general knowledge, inability to connect the dots more quickly without being told a step-by-step process:

For example, I knew a girl from my high school job that when I taught her how to make hot dogs (simple process: oven -> set for 15 minutes -> bell rings --> take out, throw on grill -> setup buns), she still needed me to actually tell her to "take out" the sausages from the oven or else they will burn, throw them on the grill, and finally set it on the buns. When they told me to grill hot dogs, all I needed was the last step (setup buns - which I actually inserted during the 15 minute wait).

These are people I think are "stupid."

Whenever I try and give my ISTP ex instructions, he starts getting really pissed at me. When my enfp friend tries to give directions to her INTP husband he gets really pissed at her.

In both cases, we give the level of detailed instruction that your hot dog girl needed-which a Ti dom does not want or need, as you guys follow a natural Ti path based upon "logical principals of how things work". Yeah, EXFPs do not come equipped with said "logical principals of how things work", instead having focused upon developing "reasonable values about how people feel".

I have actually frusutrated one INTP, as I asked for very direct directions regarding feedback they had for me-since it was a very direct request for change, I requested very direct instructions for change. They asked if I could not "think for myself". When I pushed further, they said since they thought about things based upon logical principles, it was hard to provide this direct "Do this..." sort of feedback....

so maybe hot dog girl is stupid-but maybe she needs to hear things explained in a way that her mind can grasp-which may be very different from yours..? Just tossing the thought out for consideration.

Actually, the opposite. I sometimes think people think I'm a bit slow at times because I usually pause, mumble, or use too many words for a sentence, but when I write to them, it's like I'm a completely different person! I think intelligence is superficially tailored toward Te since they are a lot more...eloquent [on the spot].

Ah, My very favorite INTP has had many people think he is a stoner, given his speech patterns can be very paused and slow. Very brilliant guy-however he did come to work once and tell his he was very sick. It turned out he made mashed potatoes but didnt cut off the little eye-roots, as he didnt know they are a bit toxic. I do adore him a great deal. He now has his dream job which involves writing up patents and shoving them under the door to somebody else to implement.

 

[OrangeAppled]

I would be cautious about classifying young INTJs as stupid, as they can be decidedly..weird and obtuse and engage in the Ni ranbling...I'd almost argue they are still building contexts to evaluate the world, thus they really begin to shine once past 30...

Oh, he was 30 already. But he certainly did ramble.
I don't think he was outright DUMB, but average at best. Nothing special book-smart-wise, plus lacking all the other smarts, which sort of adds up to stupid.

 

[Scorquendo]

Yes, but I think with NTs in particular it can be less immediately apparent when they are stupid. I'm thinking of the ones who just fervently argue in circles that make no sense at all but their delusion belief in their own intelligence, tricks people into thinking they really possess it. Of course, before long, people tend to realise the truth.

That makes more sense. I've come across people like that, but it's odd because they would completely an ace abstract subject like physics, per se, but not believe in something like the theory of evolution...at ALL. I wouldn't necessarily consider them stupid, though; neither would I consider them on par w/ hot dog chick.

Whenever I try and give my ISTP ex instructions, he starts getting really pissed at me. When my enfp friend tries to give directions to her INTP husband he gets really pissed at her.

In both cases, we give the level of detailed instruction that your hot dog girl needed-which a Ti dom does not want or need, as you guys follow a natural Ti path based upon "logical principals of how things work". Yeah, EXFPs do not come equipped with said "logical principals of how things work", instead having focused upon developing "reasonable values about how people feel".

I have actually frusutrated one INTP, as I asked for very direct directions regarding feedback they had for me-since it was a very direct request for change, I requested very direct instructions for change. They asked if I could not "think for myself". When I pushed further, they said since they thought about things based upon logical principles, it was hard to provide this direct "Do this..." sort of feedback....

so maybe hot dog girl is stupid-but maybe she needs to hear things explained in a way that her mind can grasp-which may be very different from yours..? Just tossing the thought out for consideration.

I don't mind directions. I actually hoard them until I absolutely need it or if I'm just lazy.

And I think she's stupid. On a job like that, there's really no reason to not understand the process of A-B-C-D...Z, and I pretty much spelled it out for that person in a very quiet and polite way (so she wasn't scared of making a mistake). For your ex and other Ti people, it's pretty much A-L-Z. Done. I prefer to hear the main points and less details, which restricts.

Anyway, that was one of my initial criterions for "stupidity" and I've yet to meet an NT/NF who fits it that badly. Bear in mind, I've met people like physics guy, but I wouldn't consider him "stupid." I suppose what the first quote said in that it's a different kind of "stupidity" for Ns rings some truth (...would kind of make sense, since one could argue iNtuitives also have a different kind of intelligence).

 

[uumlau]

Well, just as it's fairly difficult to judge the type of someone who is insane or otherwise psychologically troubled, I believe it is difficult to judge the type of anyone who scores more than a couple of standard deviations below average IQ, especially with respect to N vs S. N reveals itself in terms of how ideas (yes, abstract ideas, "ideas" for short) are processed. If the quality of those ideas is poor or the ideas are plain obvious, it will bias the type toward S, because the abstract thinking, although present, cannot be made evident in a concrete, measurable way.

As for "average" NTs and NFs, I believe the world is full of them. They might latch on to the big ideas admiringly, but don't forge ahead on their own to create new ideas, or at least not any new ideas that others haven't come up with many times before. Many political figures come to mind (politicians and otherwise, throughout the political spectrum, unnamed, since I'd rather not have a typological debate about them or discuss politics), where they're obviously idealistic and abstract, but don't appear to have much of a clue about consequences or implementation. Any reasonably intelligent N type would realize that consequences and implementation is where most of one's effort is applied ("Genius: 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration" - Edison).

The worst N types in my opinion are the ones who are so fond of the idea of being smart that they have (intuitively) figured out how to sound smart, but upon listening to them for a length of time, it becomes obvious that they're fairly average, and really don't know what they're talking about well enough to engage in discussions of any great depth. You know they're not "S", because they don't want to talk about "S things", but they're not all that competent talking about "N things". As Orobas points out, some of these are just younger types who haven't had much real experience. And others just are as they are.

 

[Thalassa]

The worst N types in my opinion are the ones who are so fond of the idea of being smart that they have (intuitively) figured out how to sound smart, but upon listening to them for a length of time, it becomes obvious that they're fairly average, and really don't know what they're talking about well enough to engage in discussions of any great depth.

This annoys me considerably. I see this a lot in INTx especially - pretentious verbosity with paltry content, and managing to even fool some people that they're saying something important because of word choice.

 

[jimrckhnd]

This annoys me considerably. I see this a lot in INTx especially - pretentious verbosity with paltry content, and managing to even fool some people that they're saying something important because of word choice.

Some INTx's (esp. younger ones) can be so enamored of their own intelligence that they forget actual achievement is the main thing: potential takes you only so far. I know INTPs can be prone to intellectual dilettantism: flitting from one interest to another and picking up just enough jargon to sound like they know what they are talking - until they come face to face with a genuine expert. These types will try to intellectually lord it over others to reinforce their own inflated sense of intellect.

 

[iwakar]

I know an ENFP irl with a learning disability that did poorly in school and joined the military to fund his higher education that he is currently struggling to make decent grades in. His vocabulary is pretty elementary and he struggles to articulate his ideas, but he is very generous and creative. I would choose his company over most any day, however the point is --no he is not of exceptional or even average intelligence by typical standards. I've also interacted with one INFJ female that struck me as very... clueless and simple but that could be age.