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[NT] INTJ, ENTJ and leading

carcrater

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Jul 31, 2011
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JOGK
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Hi INTJ's and ENTJ's my question is for you. I'm interested in knowing what compels you guys to be leaders instead of being followers?
 
T

ThatGirl

Guest
The inefficiency of others.

Being responsible for someone else's mistakes.

It comes naturally if you are in a group of people who do not see the bigger picture and you do.

Think of it this way. If you were in a boat with 50 people and everyone was talking. You naturally happened to notice the boat was two minutes away from crashing while everyone else was oblivious, wouldn't you yell "Iceberg! Get the wheel we need to turn! Go!"

Assuming the crisis is averted, wouldn't you keep a more cautious look out afterward, and ask others to do the same? For me I see stuff like that all day every day, just on a lesser scale.


I have no problem following a strong leader. The problem is finding one I trust to get the job done as I would. To be precise, diligent, intelligent, and not lazy!
 

bcubchgo

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Jul 29, 2010
Messages
164
MBTI Type
ENTJ
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3w4
because I'm too much of a rebel to follow anyone else's rules.
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
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Apr 18, 2010
Messages
27,230
MBTI Type
INTJ
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5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Hi INTJ's and ENTJ's my question is for you. I'm interested in knowing what compels you guys to be leaders instead of being followers?
The fact that so many people around me (including people in supposed leadership positions) have questionable or muddled goals, and/or no focus to their actions causes me not to be a follower most of the time. This is my preferred mode - to work on my own, with minimal need to follow direction or to give it. When I do act as a leader, it is usually to make sure that something gets accomplished, or gets done right. I have enough seniority at work that I also act as a mentor to younger colleagues, which is a form of leadership. I don't mind this, as I enjoy teaching, especially one-on-one.
 
Joined
Jul 13, 2011
Messages
32
MBTI Type
INTJ
It seems to me that it would have to do with presence as well, people will follow the stupid if they believe they know what they are doing. I also believe that part of it is presence, I have always been told I have charisma (by my friends) most everyone else I try to intimidate, and i'm good at it. I suppose part of it would probably also be the ability to take initiative, I find more often than not I have been the "leader" of my friends, partly because I am the one to take the initiative to bring us all together.
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

Guest
I seem to be forced into a leadership role. Hardly any of my friends besides an ENFP has an opinion of drive. It frustrates me and so I end up taking at least somewhat control with the ENFP and we get done what needs to be done.
 

Uytuun

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nnnn
I lead myself and follow few people. I don't have much interest in leading others.
 

gandalf

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Jul 4, 2011
Messages
95
MBTI Type
INTJ
I see leadership as a means of achieving my goals. Therefor, I can take the lead when I feel that's needed but I have no desire for the leadership role itself. Quite often I just notice that what I want is such that few others believe in it and therefor, I have to take the lead and the role of the agitator in order to reach the goal.

Because I see leadership as a way to something else, I am also interested in developing myself in it. I sometimes take leadership roles that I see a chances to learn something new I am likely to need in the future.

Nevertheless, I am more than happy to let the others lead and to remain as a background support whenever I consider that efficient.

That bad thing for me about be the leader is that it limits my insight. Leading usually includes interaction with people and that takes such a part f my resources that my ability to observe and use my insight is clearly compromised. That's the reason number one why I avoid taking the lead whenever possible.
 

ceecee

Coolatta® Enjoyer
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
15,908
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
8w9
Hi INTJ's and ENTJ's my question is for you. I'm interested in knowing what compels you guys to be leaders instead of being followers?

Competent leadership causes no issues for me at all but if I feel the current leadership is lacking, I'll take over. Inefficiency, incompetency, straight up shitheadness, would be some of the reasons that would compel me to lead because I'm not following that kind of person.
 

Odyne

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Jul 19, 2010
Messages
49
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
8w7
Usually, I am the only one in the group who has an idea of what should be done, or how to do it.

I don't seek leadership positions, I don't like the responsibility that comes with it, but it falls into my lap too often because I have a clear plan in mind on how to proceed, or the only one with a solution. I tried to back away from it a few times, and concede to someone else but sometimes it takes the work or project a long time to move forward.

Also, it's not a matter of others being unable to figure things out, it's just that I do it quicker than everybody else. As if, I am hardwired to think of things like that..so they end up giving me the leadership position.

I'd be more than happy to just mind my own assigned part and not worry about leading anybody or anything anywhere.
 

FDG

pathwise dependent
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Aug 13, 2007
Messages
5,903
MBTI Type
ENTJ
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7w8
Usually, I am the only one in the group who has an idea of what should be done, or how to do it.

I don't seek leadership positions, I don't like the responsibility that comes with it, but it falls into my lap too often because I have a clear plan in mind on how to proceed, or the only one with a solution. I tried to back away from it a few times, and concede to someone else but sometimes it takes the work or project a long time to move forward.

Also, it's not a matter of others being unable to figure things out, it's just that I do it quicker than everybody else. As if, I am hardwired to think of things like that..so they end up giving me the leadership position.

I'd be more than happy to just mind my own assigned part and not worry about leading anybody or anything anywhere.

Yeah, I feel exactly the same. Although, if it's something I'm really enthousiastic about, I'll take over much more gladly. However usually people don't care that much about things I'm enthousiastic about, lol.
 

rav3n

.
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Aug 6, 2010
Messages
11,655
As it related to career path, management just "was". Quite frankly, it never occurred to me to not target the role within the sector of choice.

Socially and when in school, I avoid leadership but if something needs to get done and everything's crazy disorganised, I'll either take it on or get reluctantly pressured into adopting the role.
 

murkrow

Branded with Satan
Joined
Jul 19, 2008
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MBTI Type
INTJ
I'm not a leader, i just can't help but act when people look at me sheepishly with easily satisfiable desires in reach.

I don't ever enlist the aid of others to accomplish things that don't matter to them, much less direct them towards making my selfish goals their own.

So, my "leadership" is charitable, giving to people what they desire but cannot see how to get. Actually usually it's not charitable, it's my way of repaying a debt of friendship.

Can I get any more magnanimous?
 

carcrater

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Thanks for the answers guys. It's interesting to find out how a few of you people lead more out of other's inability to do it properly over objectively choosing to lead.
 

Jessica

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Nov 21, 2010
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INTP
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4w5
I can't speak for general life, but as far as social groups go, I noticed ENTJs seem to "accidentally" take the lead.

Example: my friend Kevin would occasionally join my primary social group on our outings at college. As we were friends before college, he knew me best and we were close friends, so it always ended up being just me and him talking on the way to our destination. The interesting thing is that, as we were always in front of everyone else, we ended up being the de facto leaders and making the group's decisions... even though I was a small part of the group and he wasn't even a part of that particular group.

My experience with other ENTJs has been much the same, with respect to social settings.

I think in a lot of ways ENTJs just have this management attitude about them. Even if they're not "trying" (though I don't know of a time when Kevin wasn't trying to manage something), they still tend to make the journey to the 'top' relatively quickly. It's interesting to observe them do it. In situations where they're "active" (I assume them all active, but I know not all of them will be), they know what needs to be done, and they do it with the upmost precision.

Oddly, though I have more experience with INTJs, I couldn't tell much about their leadership abilities. My younger INTJ cousin has also been my best friend for years... yet in almost everything we do, I take the lead. He makes me. In other situations (i.e. those where I'm not involved), he will quickly be front and center and very decisive on matters. My older INTJ cousin is similar, but with minor differences: he lets me take the lead until he determines that it's time to step in and be decisive.

The count: one INTJ steps aside for me, takes the lead elsewhere. One INTJ steps aside for me, but takes the lead when necessary.

By 'steps aside for me', I mean they put me in leadership position for whatever reason, almost every time. Not implying superiority or what have you.

I think INTJs just like experimenting. Seeing how the approach of some people goes and either 1) acting on a similar approach or 2) making adjustments to said approach where necessary mid-approach. There's no reason why either of them (both more capable than I) would put me as leader unless they were getting something out of it.
 

gandalf

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Jul 4, 2011
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I think INTJs just like experimenting. Seeing how the approach of some people goes and either 1) acting on a similar approach or 2) making adjustments to said approach where necessary mid-approach. There's no reason why either of them (both more capable than I) would put me as leader unless they were getting something out of it.

Quite well put. When letting my J side dominate (i.e. being an INTJ), I always seek for the most optimal (effective) solution. Usually, the most optimal solution includes that I am doing something else than leading. I can lead, I can even be good at doing that, but I am even better at staying at background observing and throwing ideas regarding whatever we are doing. Therefor, I am more than happy to let others lead when I consider them capable enough for that but when I don't, I also assume the leadership role quite naturally.

So in that perspective, both of your INTJ friends sound just like INTJs usually do. They lead when they need to but they have no special desire to lead.
 

Litvyak

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It comes naturally if you are in a group of people who do not see the bigger picture and you do.

In my case, indecisiveness. Nothing is more frustrating than a large group of people thinking and analyzing and drawing wrong conclusions, just to start the whole process over again, to ultimately decide that they can't decide on anything. Thinking without doing means failure and death.

And here's my dirty little secret: I never liked Hamlet. That bitch had to die. I'm all for Fortinbras.
 

ceecee

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Apr 22, 2008
Messages
15,908
MBTI Type
INTJ
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8w9
In my case, indecisiveness. Nothing is more frustrating than a large group of people thinking and analyzing and drawing wrong conclusions, just to start the whole process over again, to ultimately decide that they can't decide on anything. Thinking without doing means failure and death.

And here's my dirty little secret: I never liked Hamlet. That bitch had to die. I'm all for Fortinbras.

Oh god, yes there's that. :dont:
 
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