[NT] Would an NT ever admit (s)he's of average intelligence?

[Fluffywolf]

I have yet to meet a person I can objectively say is more intelligent than I am.

lol

Not even a single one out of the two people you get to know on average per year?

 

[SilkRoad]

I think it's probably a tendency for NTs to think they're geniuses/intellectually superior and thus superior in other respects. As others have pointed out, though, I think a lot of them have a more balanced perspective than that.

I think some NTs might take the "I'm so intellectually superior, and you're all just nothing" (at an extreme) perspective to mask the fact that they feel insecure about social deficiencies, etc.

It's not so different from the NF tendency (well, certainly INFJ!) to go "I am never wrong about anyone, my people skills are flawless, etc." There seem to be a fair few who are like that - but then, there are also plenty who are aware of their deficiencies and flaws.

I wonder if Ni and Ne users are somewhat more likely to develop superiority complexes than S-types. It does seem to lend itself to an unfortunate "magical thinking" or "intellectually flawless" outlook. S types seem somewhat more likely to be down to earth and to use whatever skills and abilities they have to just get on with it - though I'm not denying that there are plenty of SJ types who think they're right about everything, etc.

 

[Xenon]

I wonder if Ni and Ne users are somewhat more likely to develop superiority complexes than S-types. It does seem to lend itself to an unfortunate "magical thinking" or "intellectually flawless" outlook. S types seem somewhat more likely to be down to earth and to use whatever skills and abilities they have to just get on with it - though I'm not denying that there are plenty of SJ types who think they're right about everything, etc.

I can see Ns, particularly introverted Ns, being more likely to be arrogant about their ideas and insights and things like that, but there are countless things one can have a superiority complex about. Jobs, wealth, physical attractiveness, accomplishments, their children, being self-sacrificing, following the "right" religion, being a "badass", any number of skills and abilities. What you focus on and feel superior about might have a fair amount to do with your type, but overestimating your abilities and overestimating the importance of things you're good at is very common among humans in general.

So it may well be that many NTs are vain about their intelligence, since that tends to be important to us. But we're hardly the only people who are prone to overestimating ourselves in some way or other.

 

[SilkRoad]

I can see Ns, particularly introverted Ns, being more likely to be arrogant about their ideas and insights and things like that, but there are countless things one can have a superiority complex about. Jobs, wealth, physical attractiveness, accomplishments, their children, being self-sacrificing, following the "right" religion, being a "badass", any number of skills and abilities. What you focus on and feel superior about might have a fair amount to do with your type, but overestimating your abilities and overestimating the importance of things you're good at is very common among humans in general.

So it may well be that many NTs are vain about their intelligence, since that tends to be important to us. But we're hardly the only people who are prone to overestimating ourselves in some way or other.

Yeah, I think this is pretty much accurate.

I think that on forums such as this you may see a bit more of what looks like a superiority complex from N types. It seems likely that this is due to many Ns feeling like they don't fit in all that well, or their skills are not really appreciated, in the real world.

 

[funkadelik]

but I haven't seen even ONE NT admit that they were merely of average intellect or below.

have you ever heard of an intellectually humble NT?

So wait...are you looking for an NT who is actually of average intellect or below or just one who is intellectually humble (ie. may have above average intellect, but doesn't parade it around and rub it in people's faces)?

Just feel like you're asking two separate questions here...

 

[Fluffywolf]

So wait...are you looking for an NT who is actually of average intellect or below or just one who is intellectually humble (ie. may have above average intellect, but doesn't parade it around and rub it in people's faces)?

Just feel like you're asking two separate questions here...

I thought the latter. Rubbed it in good in my first post, I did. I am the humble master!

 

[King sns]

I don't know about that. Most NT's I've known IRL aren't like that at all. They are intellectual, yes. Intelligence (IQ) doesn't often come up in my everyday conversations. The ones I've known have shown to have a large wealth of intellectual knowledge (regardless of other stuff, problem solving, whatever, that appears to vary, though difficult to judge.) These are friends and former friends I'm talking about so naturally they are not going to have that childish superiority complex that we see here. (They wouldn't be my friends if they did. ) From what I've seen, they are just as humble as the rest of us, though clearly knowledgeable. I think that knowledgeable is the closest word I can use for them as a whole group. Hope that made sense.

 

[bcubchgo]

I think at some point most NT's realize that they are capable of a specific type of thought process that is very exploratory and open. I also think that many of them - in reaction to this realization - probably come across as vain because they believe they understand and accept complexity much more readily than the average person. There have been many times in my life when I've said to myself - "I can't believe how dumb people actually are sometimes". Let's face it: the majority of people in the world have a very hard time accepting thought processes outside their own limited scope of knowledge. It requires effort to push yourself outside of your own boundaries, and it's obvious that most people just ain't gonna do that. Part of the frustration is also that when you have people limit you with what they perceive to be "ideal" rules and ideologies (as many people are wont to do) that we do not react well to this. Even though most NT's are very "confident" in themselves, this is somewhat of a "face" because in reality, most NT's realize that their "confidence" is contingent on their knowledge and experiences. The more knowledge and experiences you acquire, the more you feel that you have an "edge" on your competition. But there's always the chance that something will come along and shake up your knowledge base.

I think what you find on places like INTJ forum is actually a dialogue of people discussing things while attempting to remain "detached" from a conclusion. It leads to an argument style where no one actually wins - because they shouldn't, but everyone is very confident about themselves. In an "optimal" NT world all conclusions are best guesses until proven otherwise. That leads to the crux of the superiority complex I think. NT's just believe that they are less likely to have a hard bias - a mental plane that is hard to reach because you have to remain detached. It is an echelon of development that I think we strive for.

 

[Edgar]

You will see an NT admit they aren't very smart the same day you see an ESTP guy admit that he sucks at sport and an ENFJ girl admit that she's a selfish human being.

 

[King sns]

I think at some point most NT's realize that they are capable of a specific type of thought process that is very exploratory and open. I also think that many of them - in reaction to this realization - probably come across as vain because they believe they understand and accept complexity much more readily than the average person. There have been many times in my life when I've said to myself - "I can't believe how dumb people actually are sometimes". Let's face it: the majority of people in the world have a very hard time accepting thought processes outside their own limited scope of knowledge. It requires effort to push yourself outside of your own boundaries, and it's obvious that most people just ain't gonna do that. Part of the frustration is also that when you have people limit you with what they perceive to be "ideal" rules and ideologies (as many people are wont to do) that we do not react well to this. Even though most NT's are very "confident" in themselves, this is somewhat of a "face" because in reality, most NT's realize that their "confidence" is contingent on their knowledge and experiences. The more knowledge and experiences you acquire, the more you feel that you have an "edge" on your competition. But there's always the chance that something will come along and shake up your knowledge base.

I think what you find on places like INTJ forum is actually a dialogue of people discussing things while attempting to remain "detached" from a conclusion. It leads to an argument style where no one actually wins - because they shouldn't, but everyone is very confident about themselves. In an "optimal" NT world all conclusions are best guesses until proven otherwise. That leads to the crux of the superiority complex I think. NT's just believe that they are less likely to have a hard bias - a mental plane that is hard to reach because you have to remain detached. It is an echelon of development that I think we strive for.

It's not only the "scientific" approach to communication- it's the things you talk about to begin with. Many of the "NT" area of expertise are things that the average population wouldn't be interested in. (I'm not saying that nobody is interested in them, just general.) It could be seen as a threat or a difference to someone from types with greater percentages of people. And you're right, it is broader, it speaks less from experience in more from general knowledge of different things. (Was about to go on a major side track about trying to talk scientifically vs. speaking from experience, but i'll refrain!) It's really a different world all together compared to what most people are used to.

Edit: This site is a case of a few spoiling for the many as well. There are dozens of NT's on here who never seem to bring up intellect or intelligence at all. Or if they did, it would be from a true cool and detached standpoint, having nothing to do with them.

 

[Little_Sticks]

There are some problems with what you're asking here. Intelligence is relative to what is valued in the intellect. And since we each have differently constructed intellects, we value different things.

That said, the idea of 'average intelligence' is critically distinguishable from the act of admitting the idea to one-self.

In other words, since intelligence is relative to the individual, seeing one-self as intellectually average or inadequate represents a personal dilemma; one that can limit your capability for potential by having an inhibitory belief.

But personally speaking, I feel I'm above average intelligence (and thus am) when I am able to go against societal norms and constructs that take away from my happiness and ability to enjoy life. Everything else is seen by me as then unintelligent. I see no reason to see otherwise, but I do understand the principle of subverting those values in the hope of creating more happiness and enjoyment of life in the long run.

Every single NT is most likely to have a high IQ, since our very cognative strengths lie in that test. Not many NT's would however say that a high IQ makes someone gifted. Nor that they are gifted.

I'm smart sure, I know my strengths and know how to use them. But I also know I have weaknesses. My intelligence according to the IQ tests may be top percentile, but I've a lot of respect for people who, despite having a much lower IQ, still realize so much more than I do. And I would give the title gifted to those people instead of myself anytime.

Realistically speaking, this is how I feel too. I can recognize and appreciate the capability or potential that others have attained that I haven't.

 

[OrangeAppled]

The question is, how many people of other types admit they are of average intelligence? I don't know many people in general who say they are of average intelligence.

I actually know a lot of SJs who will admit such a thing. For example, I'd say my ISFJ mom is above average intelligence, but she'll profess to be nothing special, to the point that it irritates me because I hate when someone "plays dumb" (although I've realized she honestly thinks this). I've read several MBTI authors who note it is common with Si-dom to underestimate themselves, and I see many doing it in regards to intelligence (especially ISFJs, less so with ISTJs).

I know SPs who could care less about how high their intelligence is, downplaying it even if the know they are above average. Sometimes they do this because it gives them an advantage, "the element of surprise".

 

[xisnotx]

There are some problems with what you're asking here. Intelligence is relative to what is valued in the intellect. And since we each have differently constructed intellects, we value different things.

This is what I meant. I can't say I have objectively met someone who is more intelligent than I am as no one can objectively define intelligence to begin with. It makes discussions about intelligence a little mundane because when it comes right down to it, intelligence is in the eye of the beholder.

I guess you could say subjectively speaking I'm a genius. But then again, subjectively speaking, who doesn't consider themselves a genius? If you don't consider yourself a genius, then honestly, why not? You don't have to be smart to be a genius..in fact most "geniuses" are idiots!

Someone really needs to disprove this IQ=intelligence thing...

 

[Rail Tracer]

Ahhhh, this issue again. Intelligence can be measure in so many ways. It is what we do with that intelligence that counts.

In places that I "excel", I can say that I am above average intelligence.
In places that I think I am mediocre, I'll say that I have average intelligence.
In places that I don't know much at all, I'll say that I am learning.
Even if I am average or above average intelligence in one area, I am still learning.

I don't confine myself to a 1 point measuring system. But when someone believes that I'm intelligent, I like to think that I still have much to learn. If someone calls me wise, I would like to think I still have much to learn. The answer being is that I am not a doctor, I am not a mechanic, I am not a construction worker, I am not a biologist, I am not a [insert the endless title given to workers.]

The doctor has more experience than me in his field, therefore, the doctor has above average intelligence in that area. However, I can't say the same thing if I compared the doctor to me in another area.

 

[Octarine]

Well I don't like to state my IQ. If anyone asks, I tell them 102, which is still above average. So I guess the answer to the question is no.

 

[Thalassa]

There is absolutely nothing about emotional "intelligence" that logic and reason cannot penetrate.

I think you're living proof that the statement you just made is false.

 

[jimrckhnd]

There is absolutely nothing about emotional "intelligence" that logic and reason cannot penetrate.

I think you're living proof that the statement you just made is false.

Well, having spent a good chunk of my life trying to prove the above proposition and failing I'd have to say I'm with you.

 

[violet_crown]

Every single self-proclaimed NT (and that could be the reason for this) claims that they're gifted/high IQ.

Usually, I'd say "not all NTs claim that", but I haven't seen even ONE NT admit that they were merely of average intellect or below.

"NTs are intrinsically superior" jokes (shitty ones) aside, have you ever heard of an intellectually humble NT?

Speaking for myself, saying that I was of average intelligence (even if it may be true) feels a lot like giving up. I dont think of intelligence as something strictly innate in the way height is. It's more like how you build things, how you put everything together, what you recognize as tools and materials. All of these things can be gained with enough effort, so no matter how you start off you're unlimited in your ultimate composition. I feel that this understanding is something intrinsic to the NT viewpoint. For this reason, I think we view things in terms of our learning curve relative to a particular subject, rather than our fundamental capacity to comprehend things in a more absolute sense. It might come off as arrogant to some, but that's just because theyre idiots.

 

[Rail Tracer]

Speaking for myself, saying that I was of average intelligence (even if it may be true) feels a lot like giving up.

I would like to think of that role as the difference between a great teacher (above average) and a student(average.) But I really don't see it as giving up... it just means I still think that I have much to learn (even if someone tells me I have above average intelligence in one area.) Once people say that they have above average intelligence, those same people tend to close off many ways to further that intelligence.

For this reason, I think we view things in terms of our learning curve relative to a particular subject, rather than our fundamental capacity to comprehend things in a more absolute sense. It might come off as arrogant to some, but that's just because theyre idiots.

That is what I am coming at. What the person has learned > IQ. Not knowing a subject is obviously closer to the lower part of the curve while knowing a lot about a subject is at the higher end of the curve. In a sense, I'm slashing the curve into two pieces.

 

[Vasilisa]

My metric is not only knowledge or reasoning. I like this, too:

"The test of intelligence is not how much we know how to do, but how we behave when we don’t know what to do… any situation, any activity, that puts before us real problems that we have to solve for ourselves, problems for which there are no answers in any book, sharpens our intelligence."

John Holt from How Children Learn​

I could see some NTs honestly stating that they don't rate themselves superior in these kinds of tests. As others said, we all have our pet conceits. Some in the realm of emotions, some in logic, some in methodology. They aren't always easy to divorce from our perspectives. Just for myself, I want the humility not to get bent out of shape by any lack of it in others.