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  1. #31
    Senior Member Little_Sticks's Avatar
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    There are some problems with what you're asking here. Intelligence is relative to what is valued in the intellect. And since we each have differently constructed intellects, we value different things.

    That said, the idea of 'average intelligence' is critically distinguishable from the act of admitting the idea to one-self.

    In other words, since intelligence is relative to the individual, seeing one-self as intellectually average or inadequate represents a personal dilemma; one that can limit your capability for potential by having an inhibitory belief.

    But personally speaking, I feel I'm above average intelligence (and thus am) when I am able to go against societal norms and constructs that take away from my happiness and ability to enjoy life. Everything else is seen by me as then unintelligent. I see no reason to see otherwise, but I do understand the principle of subverting those values in the hope of creating more happiness and enjoyment of life in the long run.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Every single NT is most likely to have a high IQ, since our very cognative strengths lie in that test. Not many NT's would however say that a high IQ makes someone gifted. Nor that they are gifted.

    I'm smart sure, I know my strengths and know how to use them. But I also know I have weaknesses. My intelligence according to the IQ tests may be top percentile, but I've a lot of respect for people who, despite having a much lower IQ, still realize so much more than I do. And I would give the title gifted to those people instead of myself anytime.
    Realistically speaking, this is how I feel too. I can recognize and appreciate the capability or potential that others have attained that I haven't.

  2. #32
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eckhart View Post
    The question is, how many people of other types admit they are of average intelligence? I don't know many people in general who say they are of average intelligence.
    I actually know a lot of SJs who will admit such a thing. For example, I'd say my ISFJ mom is above average intelligence, but she'll profess to be nothing special, to the point that it irritates me because I hate when someone "plays dumb" (although I've realized she honestly thinks this). I've read several MBTI authors who note it is common with Si-dom to underestimate themselves, and I see many doing it in regards to intelligence (especially ISFJs, less so with ISTJs).

    I know SPs who could care less about how high their intelligence is, downplaying it even if the know they are above average. Sometimes they do this because it gives them an advantage, "the element of surprise".
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  3. #33
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    There are some problems with what you're asking here. Intelligence is relative to what is valued in the intellect. And since we each have differently constructed intellects, we value different things.
    This is what I meant. I can't say I have objectively met someone who is more intelligent than I am as no one can objectively define intelligence to begin with. It makes discussions about intelligence a little mundane because when it comes right down to it, intelligence is in the eye of the beholder.

    I guess you could say subjectively speaking I'm a genius. But then again, subjectively speaking, who doesn't consider themselves a genius? If you don't consider yourself a genius, then honestly, why not? You don't have to be smart to be a genius..in fact most "geniuses" are idiots!

    Someone really needs to disprove this IQ=intelligence thing...

  4. #34
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Ahhhh, this issue again. Intelligence can be measure in so many ways. It is what we do with that intelligence that counts.

    In places that I "excel", I can say that I am above average intelligence.
    In places that I think I am mediocre, I'll say that I have average intelligence.
    In places that I don't know much at all, I'll say that I am learning.
    Even if I am average or above average intelligence in one area, I am still learning.

    I don't confine myself to a 1 point measuring system. But when someone believes that I'm intelligent, I like to think that I still have much to learn. If someone calls me wise, I would like to think I still have much to learn. The answer being is that I am not a doctor, I am not a mechanic, I am not a construction worker, I am not a biologist, I am not a [insert the endless title given to workers.]

    The doctor has more experience than me in his field, therefore, the doctor has above average intelligence in that area. However, I can't say the same thing if I compared the doctor to me in another area.

  5. #35
    The Eighth Colour Octarine's Avatar
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    Well I don't like to state my IQ. If anyone asks, I tell them 102, which is still above average. So I guess the answer to the question is no.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Talionis View Post
    There is absolutely nothing about emotional "intelligence" that logic and reason cannot penetrate.
    I think you're living proof that the statement you just made is false.

  7. #37
    Senior Member jimrckhnd's Avatar
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    There is absolutely nothing about emotional "intelligence" that logic and reason cannot penetrate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I think you're living proof that the statement you just made is false.
    Well, having spent a good chunk of my life trying to prove the above proposition and failing I'd have to say I'm with you.
    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups

  8. #38
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcockburn View Post
    Every single self-proclaimed NT (and that could be the reason for this) claims that they're gifted/high IQ.

    Usually, I'd say "not all NTs claim that", but I haven't seen even ONE NT admit that they were merely of average intellect or below.

    "NTs are intrinsically superior" jokes (shitty ones) aside, have you ever heard of an intellectually humble NT?
    Speaking for myself, saying that I was of average intelligence (even if it may be true) feels a lot like giving up. I dont think of intelligence as something strictly innate in the way height is. It's more like how you build things, how you put everything together, what you recognize as tools and materials. All of these things can be gained with enough effort, so no matter how you start off you're unlimited in your ultimate composition. I feel that this understanding is something intrinsic to the NT viewpoint. For this reason, I think we view things in terms of our learning curve relative to a particular subject, rather than our fundamental capacity to comprehend things in a more absolute sense. It might come off as arrogant to some, but that's just because theyre idiots.
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

  9. #39
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-up Rex View Post
    Speaking for myself, saying that I was of average intelligence (even if it may be true) feels a lot like giving up.
    I would like to think of that role as the difference between a great teacher (above average) and a student(average.) But I really don't see it as giving up... it just means I still think that I have much to learn (even if someone tells me I have above average intelligence in one area.) Once people say that they have above average intelligence, those same people tend to close off many ways to further that intelligence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-up Rex View Post
    For this reason, I think we view things in terms of our learning curve relative to a particular subject, rather than our fundamental capacity to comprehend things in a more absolute sense. It might come off as arrogant to some, but that's just because theyre idiots.
    That is what I am coming at. What the person has learned > IQ. Not knowing a subject is obviously closer to the lower part of the curve while knowing a lot about a subject is at the higher end of the curve. In a sense, I'm slashing the curve into two pieces.

  10. #40
    Symbolic Herald Vasilisa's Avatar
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    My metric is not only knowledge or reasoning. I like this, too:

    "The test of intelligence is not how much we know how to do, but how we behave when we don’t know what to do… any situation, any activity, that puts before us real problems that we have to solve for ourselves, problems for which there are no answers in any book, sharpens our intelligence."


    I could see some NTs honestly stating that they don't rate themselves superior in these kinds of tests. As others said, we all have our pet conceits. Some in the realm of emotions, some in logic, some in methodology. They aren't always easy to divorce from our perspectives. Just for myself, I want the humility not to get bent out of shape by any lack of it in others.
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