User Tag List

First 12

Results 11 to 19 of 19

  1. #11
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    9 sp/sx
    Posts
    9,422

    Default

    lol, language barrier I guess. :P
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  2. #12
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    2,158

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    lol, language barrier I guess. :P
    Yeah, no worries, I figured that. Deviance, as in deviating from the mean, standard deviations, "you little DEVIANT!!!", etc.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  3. #13
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    9 sp/sx
    Posts
    9,422

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    Yeah, no worries, I figured that. Deviance, as in deviating from the mean, standard deviations, "you little DEVIANT!!!", etc.
    Hehe, I thought the topic was too assumptious (whilest ironically it was me that made the wrong assumption), but it makes a lot more sense now. :P
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  4. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    MBTI
    intp
    Posts
    214

    Default

    This reminds me of a conversation I had with an ESFJ friend about tradition. He believed it was important in and of itself, adding 'flavor' to life. I asked him what the hell 'flavor' was, and how that fit into what we were talking about. After a few minutes of this we realized we were speaking different languages, gave up on the topic, and went out to the pub.

    NTs don't play into tradition for tradition's sake, or respect someone because they're an authority. Instead, they follow traditions that make sense and respect people who they deem worthy of respect. This results in what appears (to an SJ) to be a blatant disregard for social customs, when in fact it is the complete opposite, the result of careful deconstruction and contemplation of those customs. Of course, this isn't always the case (some NT's are just assholes, and others are thoroughly indoctrinated into the culture), but you find this a lot in so-called 'social deviants.'

    Bundy, Manson, etc, were psychopaths (they lacked both the ability to empathize and a normal fear response). NTs can (generally) empathize just fine, and often do, but they make decisions based on things like facts and logic. Why? Because it makes more sense (IMO). For instance, you can know that firing someone will make them sad, and feel for them, but still make your decision to fire them solely based on their work performance.

  5. #15
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    2,158

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dala View Post
    This reminds me of a conversation I had with an ESFJ friend about tradition. He believed it was important in and of itself, adding 'flavor' to life. I asked him what the hell 'flavor' was, and how that fit into what we were talking about. After a few minutes of this we realized we were speaking different languages, gave up on the topic, and went out to the pub.

    NTs don't play into tradition for tradition's sake, or respect someone because they're an authority. Instead, they follow traditions that make sense and respect people who they deem worthy of respect. This results in what appears (to an SJ) to be a blatant disregard for social customs, when in fact it is the complete opposite, the result of careful deconstruction and contemplation of those customs. Of course, this isn't always the case (some NT's are just assholes, and others are thoroughly indoctrinated into the culture), but you find this a lot in so-called 'social deviants.'

    Bundy, Manson, etc, were psychopaths (they lacked both the ability to empathize and a normal fear response). NTs can (generally) empathize just fine, and often do, but they make decisions based on things like facts and logic. Why? Because it makes more sense (IMO). For instance, you can know that firing someone will make them sad, and feel for them, but still make your decision to fire them solely based on their work performance.
    Do you think this tendency to "carefully deconstruct social norms" can be taken too far (to an extreme), to the point that it strips one of their ability to empathize with other people and with social norms and to have a normal fear response? In other words, did these guys' deconstruction of social norms (to an extreme degree) play a role in them becoming psychopaths?
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  6. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    MBTI
    intp
    Posts
    214

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    Do you think this tendency to "carefully deconstruct social norms" can be taken too far (to an extreme), to the point that it strips one of their ability to empathize with other people and with social norms and to have a normal fear response? In other words, did these guys' deconstruction of social norms (to an extreme degree) play a role in them becoming psychopaths?
    There's no evidence that this is the case. The most recent research on the subject suggests that psychopathy is at least partially caused by a lack of maternal warmth/care, resulting in a deep-seated sense of hostility and distrust at a very young age (before two). The psychopathic brain actually becomes wired differently before it forms the ability to behave rationally or deconstruct anything. I also have not seen any evidence that NT personalities are more prone to psychopathy than other types, although this is entirely possible.

  7. #17
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,517

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    OK, this is kind of what I was getting at. I'm not sure how old you are, but you say that you would do a cost-benefit analysis and that NTJ's are usually goal-driven. But, when you were young - like say 18-ish, were you more impulsive and less goal-oriented? Could you see younger NTJ's (or NTP's) being more prone to these acts?

    Also, what might cause guys like Ted Bundy, Manson, this guy in Norway, the infamous Adolf, and many others who write lengthy manifestos and all this garbage, etc, to be very extreme deviants? Is there some common thread in NT's, or INT's? Does intelligence make extreme deviance more likely? Or detachment from reality? Or social isolation? Or are they just nutcases who went off the deep end?
    I personally was not more impulsive as a teen; I felt I had too much at stake, too many plans to take stupid risks. If anything, I give in to impulses more now (though generally harmless ones), because my personal, professional, and financial security is established.

    As for Ted Bundy, et. al., I have been wondering myself lately whether they are even INTJ as they are often considered. Their actions do nothing to further their goals, and in some cases, even work against them. It seems more Fi-fueled than anything else. Perhaps they are really INFJs. In any case they have some pathology or other, and MBTI is meant to describe generally healthy individuals.

    I would not agree, then, that NTs or INTs are overrepresented in the prison population. I would agree that they are more likely to disregard social norms in less extreme ways.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  8. #18
    Senior Member Jessica's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Socionics
    ENTp
    Posts
    268

    Default

    ENTJs sound the most likely to end up in prisons, but they would represent a lower populace than most because they can be pretty cunning about what they do. In an odd twist, the OP's example of an ENTJ running an underground business to make it through college is exactly what the only ENTJ I know is doing. He's selling weed, and a lot of it, and growing weed, a lot of it. He's probably considered a high-level distributor during college months. He could take in as much as he wanted, but he kind of keeps it down low to be safer.

    INTJs and INTPs are more likely to do illegal things, i.e. drugs, underaged drinking, and more likely to fall into habits of addiction and self-destruction. This is experience talking: I have a lot of experience with both INTs.

    INTJs being more likely than INTPs to go to jail, as they tend to be more unintentionally rash or be more confident in half-baked plots.

    ENTPs tend to, oddly enough, be the mostly-good types. I've never known any ENTPs to act overly risky or do too many things that could get them in deep shit. Maybe the ENTPs I know are just douches. They also seem to have a penchant for ratting on others, rarely unintentional.
    I have a (new) blog here.

    You should do these: JohariNohari

  9. #19
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    2,158

    Default

    Yeah, I have known 2 ENTJ's who did that sort of thing - that's why I mentioned it. One did the same thing that you mention - but this was way back in high school. In high school, he was dealing with and partnering with adults. He actually had a pretty large operation in the school (very big school) and outside of it - to the point to where he had several people "working for him" and he was no longer in a position where he could get caught. If anyone was going to get caught, it was his underlings - he was just overseeing the whole thing. I became friends with him, not knowing any of it, and he eventually trusted me and started showing me how it was all layed out and wanted me to get involved because "I was smart and could make a killing".

    Another ENTJ I know was doing some similar things while in law school - and making big bucks. Got caught and got put away for like 7 years. He's now a very successful attorney.

    But, ENTJ's are very successful when they stay on the good side of things too. These examples are just misdirected energy/trying to take shortcuts to reach their goals. I'd say if anyone was going to run the mob or stuff like that, it's probably a misdirected/evil ENTJ who is best cut out for it.

    But, the misdirected/evil INTx's are probably the guys writing 1,500 page manifestos, coming up with grand strategies, and going on these big shooting sprees and "carrying out their agenda", etc.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

Similar Threads

  1. [MBTItm] NF and NT romance in movies
    By gretch in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 58
    Last Post: 05-18-2017, 12:26 AM
  2. [MBTItm] NF and NT... drawn together like moth to flame
    By sakuraba in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 251
    Last Post: 05-08-2009, 04:00 PM
  3. [NT] Neurosis and NTs
    By Kora in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 100
    Last Post: 11-11-2008, 12:47 AM
  4. Women, social issues, and how that translates into votes
    By proteanmix in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 10-05-2008, 02:22 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO