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[INTP] INTPs & Friendship

cosmicjourney

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Jul 18, 2011
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8
MBTI Type
ENFP
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4w5
How does one know if he/she is considered to be a close friend of an INTP? How does one know if he/she is in the INTP's inner circle? What do INTPs do/say for/to their close friends that they wouldn't do/say for acquaintances?

I am an ENFP and I find it rather easy to befriend all types-- although obviously there are always exceptions. At times, I may take for granted my ability to really get to know someone well (ie. a friend sharing intimate details) and it doesn't always register at the time what a big deal it was for them to do so. I don't want to make the mistake of doing this again.

Oh! I also have a few other questions:

What traits do INTPs look for close friends?
Which traits can INTPs NOT STAND in people?

Lastly:

What are the traits specifically in ENFPs that INTPs admire/relate/ are attracted to?
What are the traits specifically in ENFPs that INTPs are annoyed by or dislike?
 

Xyk

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Mar 27, 2011
Messages
284
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5
INTPs don't have friends. We have long since evolved past the need for them.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,192
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BELF
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594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
The following are answered for me, rather than all INTPs:

What traits do INTPs look for close friends?
Which traits can INTPs NOT STAND in people?

Look for: Intelligence, empathy, humor, curiosity, honesty, trustworthy, openness, creativity
Can't stand: Hubris, stupidity, lack of humor sense, controlling, anal retentive, codependence/clingy, lack of imagination

What are the traits specifically in ENFPs that INTPs admire/relate/ are attracted to?
What are the traits specifically in ENFPs that INTPs are annoyed by or dislike?

Admire: Passion, energy, perseverance, championing, fearlessness
Annoyed by: Illogical, invasiveness, stubbornness, arrogance, aggressive (when in Fi lock)
 

INTPness

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Jan 22, 2009
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2,157
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INTP
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5w4
How does one know if he/she is considered to be a close friend of an INTP? How does one know if he/she is in the INTP's inner circle? What do INTPs do/say for/to their close friends that they wouldn't do/say for acquaintances?

You would definitely know if you were in the inner circle because you would be getting a lot of our time. We tend to have small inner circles, so if you are one of the people that we are hanging out with or spending time with, then you are in the inner circle - or at least you are "getting there". A lot of acquaintances just get the "surface stuff", whereas, the inner circle friends have access to a lot more personal information. My inner circle friendships run pretty deep in that we are able to talk about pretty much anything. I don't hold anything back from them, I don't really have any "secrets" with them or things that I'm not willing to discuss. I find that I'm able to discuss different things with different inner circle friends too. With my ENTJ friend, I'm able to talk about the deep things of life in a logical, straightforward way without fear of anyone having their feelings hurt. We just say what's on our minds, we ask tough questions of each other, and we give honest answers. It just works. But, there are certain things we just don't talk about - like "feelings" and such.

With an ENFP friend of mine, I get the opposite things from her. We talk about people, spirituality, I'm open to hearing how she feels, etc. It's different, but it also works. With an ISTJ friend of mine, I'm also close with him to the point to where we have a lot of trust built up. If he asks a very personal question, I don't question why he's asking - I already trust him and so I'm able to be honest with him because I know he's got my back. And same with him - he can tell me anything and he knows that what he tells me is held in strict confidence.

For me, these things take time. I try to be an open person with everyone I come into contact with, but there are a lot of layers - like an onion - to many introverts. For someone to have access to all of those layers takes time. Many months. It's possible to have deep discussions with someone early on in a friendship, but there will still be more layers for the other person to discover. If I meet someone new, I'll have an open discussion with them (that's probably just an "sx" thing) - an open discussion for an "sx" can probably sometimes seem really intense for a lot of people. If a friendship builds, then you can gradually show more layers - if it doesn't, then you just keep it more of a "surface friendship" - more "outer circle". Only the friendships that have continued to grow and be mutually beneficial for many months - only those become "inner circle" for me.

What traits do INTPs look for close friends?

Trustworthy, loyal, independent, fun to be around, interesting to talk to, someone who I can be myself around, someone who understands an introvert's need for space. Ne humor is a big bonus.

Which traits can INTPs NOT STAND in people?

Overbearing, need to have my attention all the time, clingy, flaky (always late and wasting my time by making me wait), uber-sensitive to the point that I can't even speak my mind - I have to walk on eggshells.

What are the traits specifically in ENFPs that INTPs admire/relate/ are attracted to?

ENFP's love to laugh, they are usually very funny and fun to be with, I love that I can toss ideas/concepts around with them for hours, I feel really comfortable and "at home" with them (sort of a kindred spirit, Ne thing), we both have an eccentric/quirky streak, they are usually very warm and accepting people.

What are the traits specifically in ENFPs that INTPs are annoyed by or dislike?

With the few that I've known, flakiness has been a real issue. Can never, ever be on time. I met with one several weeks ago and she knows that I get mad when she keeps me waiting (which happens all the time) and so she said, "Let's meet at 7pm." I said, "You sure? I thought you wanted to meet at 6pm?" She said, "Yeah, I'm telling you to be there at 7pm, but I'm going to plan on being there at 6pm and that gives me a 1-hour buffer so that I can be an hour late and still be on time." I said, "OK great, whatever. See you at 7pm!" She showed up at 7:45 - kept me waiting for 45 minutes - from a "Ti" perspecitve - it's just unacceptable. Just doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever.

The whole "center of attention" thing. I'm INTP. I can't be with you 24/7 and be all bubbly and "OMG let's go hang out 4 nights in a row 'til 2am". Ummm, no. I love their company and all, but I handle people in small doses. This seems to cause a big rift. They hear me when I tell them that, but it's like they don't really "hear me". And I don't necessarily blame them for this, I think it's just a difference in extroversion and introversion. They like lots of time with their friends; I require much less. In order for the friendship to work, there has to be mutual understanding of this issue and a willingness for both parties to compromise - which could be asking a lot.

Another thing that has really left me dumbfounded is when I became very close "inner circle" with 2 ENFP's - those 2 individuals ended up wanting more out of the relationship and when I didn't feel the same way about them, they no longer wanted to be friends. To me, that basically shows that they weren't interested in being my friend or getting to know me for who I am - they basically just wanted a man. I understand that this happens in human relations (I've certainly been on the other side of it myself), but when the feelings were unrequited, the ENFP's kind of jumped ship and held a grudge against me when all I had been doing was enjoying their friendship and being honest about that - there was no physical contact in either case.

All in all, I really really (!!!) enjoy the company of ENFP's. Being friends with an INTP probably requires a good amount of patience.
 
Joined
Jul 8, 2010
Messages
450
MBTI Type
ESFJ
People I'd consider friends are those I admire or those who improve my quality of life. They must also be independent, as I cannot stand clingy people or people who need constant contact. If I can go off for a few months or even a year and call/message you randomly and we still have that connection, you'll really be considered a friend.
 

cosmicjourney

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Jul 18, 2011
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8
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ENFP
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4w5
Thanks, INTPness, 5231311252 and Jennifer! I really appreciate your insight!

I've been thinking about my relations with a particular INTP friend of mine. When I met him, he was 25, and I had just turned 16. For some reason, we clicked, despite a large age difference.

Do you think that it's odd that became good friends despite obviously being at radically different stages in our lives, and being at different maturity levels? Would you befriend an significantly younger ENFP of the opposite sex with ages such as these? What does this say about the INTP and the ENFP in this situation? Does it matter; is this far too much speculation with the little information I've presented?

At the end of the day, my friendship with my INTP will not be swayed by what users post on here. Still, I find your perspectives interesting and insightful, and if it helps me to reflect on my friendship, then I am extra appreciative.

Also, to any other INTPs, please feel free to still answer questions from my first post; I value everyone's contributions!
 

Stigmata

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Messages
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What traits do INTPs look for close friends?
A witty sense of humor, easygoing, intelligence, imaginative/creative/interesting. Similar tastes and interests are an added bonus, but not a requirement.
Which traits can INTPs NOT STAND in people?

Pretty much imagine the opposite of everything I listed above: Rigidness, overbearing, loud, ignorance, but without the willingness to be educated or accept other perspectives.

What are the traits specifically in ENFPs that INTPs admire/relate/ are attracted to?
What are the traits specifically in ENFPs that INTPs are annoyed by or dislike?

Sorry, I don't know any ENFPs personally to provide any sort of answer not derived from the archetypal ENFP profile.
 

MiasmaResonance

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5w?
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Honestly, those that I know in real life who I consider to be my "close friend" probably don't even know I think that. I'm very distant from even the people I really do like. I think they know that I dislike most people though, so if they understand that they should be able to tell that I like them. Then again, I treat most people (even the ones I dislike) with a nice facade unless I am backed into a defensive position for whatever reason. No need to create outer conflict when I am perfectly content with it remaining inward. I am much more open with those I consider myself close to. I would never let anyone "in" that I disliked.

So, I can get along with most types, but that doesn't mean I like most types or want to associate with them. I honestly don't care what you are, as long as you're not an idiot and we share common interests. I can't stand stupidity and people with what I consider to be "bad taste".

I don't really admire any of the traits. I can mimic them well enough for my own benefit and the benefit of others, when I need to (socially).

I am annoyed by the teenage ENFPs I know. Many of the girls I go to school with are that type and they are complete airheads who never stop talking about other people or something else equally as dim. Not saying they are all like that (I know a few ENFPs who I like..and anyway, the ones I am talking about are very immature..maybe that will change with age..), but I notice it is a common trend.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
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Do you think that it's odd that became good friends despite obviously being at radically different stages in our lives, and being at different maturity levels? Would you befriend an significantly younger ENFP of the opposite sex with ages such as these? What does this say about the INTP and the ENFP in this situation? Does it matter; is this far too much speculation with the little information I've presented?

Not enough information to provide a clear explanation. However, I will suggest two things.

You were the younger of the two and probably looked up to him. You are probably more advanced socially, he less advanced -- so in terms of social ability, you might have been on par and you still might have even been providing him with someone he could not achieve on his own. (You'll see this often also in terms of who male INTPs marry: partners who can carry the more social aspects of adulthood not just within the marriage but when interfacing as a couple with the rest of the world.)

You were also probably pretty positive, an avid learner, asked lots of questions. One of the typical "roles" that the INTP falls into is sage. He likes to impart insights and information, it's a natural character traits; and I'd assume you were just soaking it up. So the dynamic worked for both of you.

INTPs don't really seem to care much about age. It's whether your thinking is sound or not, and whether your ideas make sense. It doesn't matter whether you are 12 years old and unknown or 65 years old and world-renown. The ideas are judged on their merits. You're both NPs, so there will be less need to follow cultural restrictions based on age (IMO).

At the end of the day, my friendship with my INTP will not be swayed by what users post on here.

Well, why would it be, though?

I don't personally really care what type my friends are (and I enjoy the fact that, when I list my best friends, they're from all different pools of personality type). I might suspect an easier time with certain personalities than others... but the bottom line is my ability to connect with an individual regardless of what type he or she is.
 

INTPness

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I could see having a natural connection with someone that much younger - I connect well with most NP's. But, if I'm 25 and she's 16, she's automatically in the friend category. There's no way I'm acting on that connection in any way, shape, or form.
 

cosmicjourney

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4w5
Well, why would it be, though?

It wouldn't be at all. It's just that my Ne likes to cover all bases when I present info or have an inquiry. In the case that someone asked, "Why are you even asking what others think of this dynamic? If it works, it works" (or something along those lines), I wanted to address it.

Thanks to the both of you!
 

Neutralpov

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Jun 29, 2009
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Another thing that has really left me dumbfounded is when I became very close "inner circle" with 2 ENFP's - those 2 individuals ended up wanting more out of the relationship and when I didn't feel the same way about them, they no longer wanted to be friends. To me, that basically shows that they weren't interested in being my friend or getting to know me for who I am - they basically just wanted a man. I understand that this happens in human relations (I've certainly been on the other side of it myself), but when the feelings were unrequited, the ENFP's kind of jumped ship and held a grudge against me when all I had been doing was enjoying their friendship and being honest about that - there was no physical contact in either case.

False! I am guilty of this and it just takes a cool off period if I know I am not right for the other person, or I can't not want to be with them and that will be stressful and an unrewarding friendship for either side. The ENFP ( or enfj) is being a good friend in this action potentially.
 

Rasofy

royal member
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Mar 7, 2011
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5,881
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INTP
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5w6
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sp/sx
I've met only woman I knew was ENFP so my view is biased. She was a nice person but we didn't get along well. Seemed she was always either too high energy or semi depressive (both bad).
ENFP: ''Weeeee, tomorrow is saturday!''
Me: ''*deadpan face* Cool uh''
She could be very funny sometimes, but the fact that she expected me to be all cheerful created some distance between us.
 

cosmicjourney

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I could see having a natural connection with someone that much younger - I connect well with most NP's. But, if I'm 25 and she's 16, she's automatically in the friend category. There's no way I'm acting on that connection in any way, shape, or form.

Another thing that has really left me dumbfounded is when I became very close "inner circle" with 2 ENFP's - those 2 individuals ended up wanting more out of the relationship and when I didn't feel the same way about them, they no longer wanted to be friends. To me, that basically shows that they weren't interested in being my friend or getting to know me for who I am - they basically just wanted a man. I understand that this happens in human relations (I've certainly been on the other side of it myself), but when the feelings were unrequited, the ENFP's kind of jumped ship and held a grudge against me when all I had been doing was enjoying their friendship and being honest about that - there was no physical contact in either case.

I will provide a little background info about the current dynamic between my INTP friend and I.

As stated in an earlier post, I was 16 and he was 25 when we met at work. We are now 19 and 28. During this time, our friendship has deepened. In hindsight, don't think I actually realized how much he confided in me, I believe I took this immense trust in me for granted. Again, I attribute this to my skill in getting people to feel comfortable, safe, accepted and willing to open up. This isn't something that I consciously do, or set out on doing.

The very early stages of our friendship were focused primarily on ideas and mutual interests. When I think about our dynamic in comparison to those I have with others; it's quite strange. With other INTPs my Ne goes crazy; jokes become zanier and zanier, ideas are expanded and bounced around quickly, and tangents are the norm. The more, the better.

With this particular INTP, the Ne-craziness does not occur nearly as often. I'm not sure why this is. I wonder if this because my intelligence isn't up to par? Hm. (This is probably a sign that I'm not a mindmate and we wouldn't work out romantically.) With other INTPs, both my age AND his age, AND older, we go Ne-crazy with ease.

Anyway, our friendship evolved into a confidant type dynamic. He would share with me his frustrations and feelings, with himself, with his family, with his friends, and with his significant others. I in turn, listened and did the best I could to empathize and offer relevant advice where I thought I could (mostly, when he explicitly asked for it). I never suggested something just for the sake of doing so on issues that I couldn't possibly understand/ never been placed in. If I didn't know, I didn't know.

I suppose this is where my Ne kicked in. If he didn't understand someone's behaviour, I could come up with various reasons as to why x did y, something that he had difficulty with at times. I did my best to explain the viewpoints of others.

I'd like to think that I was nonjudgmental with him. I certainly hope I was.

I also had feelings for him, essentially from when we first met. I found him to be compelling, intelligent, and attractive, so the crush I realized I had on him was not a big deal, nor was it a surprise. Early on in our friendship, he admitted to having feelings for me too-- a little crush. (He was in a committed relationship at the time). I didn't take this to mean anything more than what it was. I intrigued him, he found me attractive; it was natural and not a big deal in the slightest.

During the course of our three year friendship there were a couple of girlfriends, a couple of breakups-- including one that shook his very core-- career changes, graduating, house hunting, and blows of depression-- both him and I. We were not close for all of it. He had quit his job at our former workplace, he found love in an new relationship, I had graduated highschool and we no longer hung out or chatted. We drifted apart. I was fine with this. I'm not clingy with friends at all. I dislike being smothered and clinged to myself, and I value independence. I figured, "Hey, we were close at that part of our lives, and that was cool". I never stopped thinking of him as a really good friend though, and never stopped having feelings for him.

Some time in middle of my first term at university, we began meeting up again. It was as if those months of little to no communication had never happened, and we picked up right where we left off. A little while after this, him and his girlfriend broke up. He was devastated, confused, angry, hurt and lost. He told me how disappointed he was in himself that he lost sight of who he was. He fell into a slight depression and fantasized about suicide. He admitted that this was the only girl that he had ever truly loved, and the carpet was just yanked out from under his feet by this break up.

I was there for him every single day. What he really needed was someone to listen, and reassure him, and I did that for him. He'd text me constantly, despite disliking texting. He'd call me after he realized that this ex was cheating on him, or when he had to step back into his old apartment to gather things-- he needed my support. I did what I could. I don't know if it was enough, but I tried. It broke my heart to see him hurting so much. I never told him this, but I'd cry alone, just knowing how hurt he was.

Time passed, and he began healing. A few months after the breakup, he kissed me-- either despite, or because of my feelings for him that he knew that I still had. Our physical relationship had begun.

I never once thought that there was really going to be anything more here. I took his kissing me as a "I'm distraught over the loss of my relationship, I haven't had my sexual needs met in a very long time, this is a substitute". I didn't take this to mean that he had deeper feelings for me. It was a nice thought to think, but not true at all, so I never pondered this seriously.

[EDIT: He alluded to having feelings for me (ie. "We fight like a couple, there's obviously something between us"), yet he never explicitly said that he did have feelings for me. I feel stupid for not catching this detail.]

We both agreed that this could happen without any sort of weirdness on our part. We were both attracted to each other in a physical manner. We explicitly talked about our dynamic, that we were always friends, first and foremost, and this would not change. There was never any confusion as to what "we" were, as there was no "us"- just two good friends. Were one of us to start feeling weird, or off-put by this change in dynamic, we would call it quits. Simple as that.

Oh yes, you can see where this is going. My feelings deepened for him, and I realized that the reservations I had about doing this-- "Cosmicjourney, you KNOW you will get hurt because of this"-- were true. I always knew that they were true, even while it happened. I relished the opportunity to be intimate with someone that I truly cared deeply for, despite knowing the grief it would cause me later. I am so disappointed in myself for letting my desires get the best of me when I knew better. I know that what I'm feeling right now has been worsened due to my inconsiderate actions.

I realized that I had never felt this way before. This was an intense like. (I would never use the word love so prematurely, but don't undermine the feelings of an intense like). I could go on and on about my current feelings for him, but this isn't necessary and just causes me further heartache. (Read on, so much for not elaborating about my feelings.)

The INTP began dating, as he had every right to do so. We began spending less and less time together. Still, he didn't forget about me completely, and we still texted/Skyped/IMed/met up. This was a very difficult period for me-- although I always knew it, the fact that he was dating someone else made it explicitly clear that the feelings I had for him were not mutual. It was a slap in the face being with him, thinking about him developing feelings for other women; holding them, and being intimate with him. When I looked at him, it was all I saw. When we were apart, I thought about his mannerisms, his smile, the time we spent together, and I missed him like crazy. This is currently all I can think about. I can't get this off of my mind, and I'm like a broken faucet, I can't stop crying.

I knew that I had to take a break/end this. I NEED to get over him. So I did this. I told him how I felt and that I understood that he didn't feel the same way. I told him that I'd have to cut off contact with for the time being to heal and get over him, and that he'd be deleted off of Facebook, Skype, my cell, etc and not to contact me. He told me that he understood. This was basically the extent of our last conversation, face to face. I additionally face the ENFP-ish dilemma of never being able to fully get over anyone. I wonder if our friendship is ruined/has ended for good.

I'm heartbroken, but I'll live. I wonder if he misses me. I wonder if I ever cross his mind. To think along these lines is torture, so I try not to do it, but my mind gets the better of me.

As of late, I've been analyzing our friendship, hence the thread. I never once thought that it was odd that a 16 year old and a 25 year old became friends, like so many of my peers did. I suppose I just want to know what he saw in me, is all.

Certain things he said in conversations have stuck out to me, and I keep playing them on a loop:

"I hate using this word, but I cherish this friendship".

"Besides my brother, you have been the one person that I could count on, and has been there for me through this whole [break-up] thing".

"You're my confidant. I've told you things that very few people, or no one knows about. I trust you. I don't want to lose you."

Upon telling sending him this text: "...I'm realistic. I know we wouldn't work out anyway. Strip everything away, the age difference, the culture/religion, the difference in experience, and leave just our characters, and there's nothing there", he sent me this:
"Wrong, you fool. Strip that all away and we're oddly similar. When's the last time we had a lull in a conversation?"

The last email he ever sent me, shortly after I told him I needed some time away:
"Can't do this."

He was my only really close friend. I don't have real, authentic friendships with depth. I have an inability to connect to other people. I've lost the only good friend I've ever had, and my loneliness is getting worse.

I think I took this friendship for granted.
 
Last edited:

kissmyasthma

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I???
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huh
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sp/so
Traits I look for in a close friend: A sense of humor is a must. I look for people who don't take themselves too seriously, who are enthusiastic, creative, and have similar interests.

Traits I can't stand in people: I don't make plans very often, so I think it's really annoying when keeps calling the day of to push them back later and later. I also dislike it when people are clingy or need constant attention from me.
And pettiness bothers me to no end.

For me, close friends are not the people I talk to when "I need a shoulder to cry on" or anything like that--that's not how I operate. Rather, close friends are the people I make an attempt to stay in touch with or spend time with. I can be my crazy enthusiastic nerdy self around them without shame.

As for ENFPs specifically, I know an ENFP girl who I consider a close friend, although I don't know if she's aware of it (I never fully open up even to my close friends). I love that she understands my introversion and has no desire to change it, but that she knows how to bring me out of my shell from time to time. We make each other laugh constantly, and I love her creativity, energy, and enthusiasm.

The thing that annoys me the most about her, though, is a grudge she has against a mutual INTJ friend of ours. The ENFP interpreted the INTJ's determination and drive during our senior year of high school as "choosing college over friends," which didn't make any sense to me. It might not have been a specifically ENFP thing, but it's something that bugged me.
 

jimrckhnd

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Jul 16, 2011
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447
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INTP
FWIW if I'm friends with somebody they are close friends by definition. I'm "friendly" with a number of people but the people I consider friends can be counted on the fingers of one hand. Those are the people I make an effort to touch base with one way or the other at least once a week. They are also the people I confide emotional information to and invite into my home.

What traits do INTPs look for close friends? Intelligence first. Interesting people, people who do or have a different look approach. These types of people tend not to be close minded. Loyalty is really high on my list: I give it but I require it as well. All of my close friends have an excellent sense of humor.

Which traits can INTPs NOT STAND in people? Stupidity. Not so much in the sense of honest mediocrity but stupid as in fools. I can't deal with people who cannot/will not accept reason, people who are illogical. And I don't respond well to physical or psychological threats real or implied: the guy that gives your hand that extra hard squeeze. The suggestion that your career/job might be better served by "going along". I loath self important people and people who try to throw what ever weight they may have around (the “little man with a little authority” type).
 

INTPness

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I will provide a little background info about the current dynamic between my INTP friend and I.

As stated in an earlier post, I was 16 and he was 25 when we met at work. We are now 19 and 28. During this time, our friendship has deepened. In hindsight, don't think I actually realized how much he confided in me, I believe I took this immense trust in me for granted. Again, I attribute this to my skill in getting people to feel comfortable, safe, accepted and willing to open up. This isn't something that I consciously do, or set out on doing.

The very early stages of our friendship were focused primarily on ideas and mutual interests. When I think about our dynamic in comparison to those I have with others; it's quite strange. With other INTPs my Ne goes crazy; jokes become zanier and zanier, ideas are expanded and bounced around quickly, and tangents are the norm. The more, the better.

With this particular INTP, the Ne-craziness does not occur nearly as often. I'm not sure why this is. I wonder if this because my intelligence isn't up to par? Hm. (This is probably a sign that I'm not a mindmate and we wouldn't work out romantically.) With other INTPs, both my age AND his age, AND older, we go Ne-crazy with ease.

Anyway, our friendship evolved into a confidant type dynamic. He would share with me his frustrations and feelings, with himself, with his family, with his friends, and with his significant others. I in turn, listened and did the best I could to empathize and offer relevant advice where I thought I could (mostly, when he explicitly asked for it). I never suggested something just for the sake of doing so on issues that I couldn't possibly understand/ never been placed in. If I didn't know, I didn't know.

I suppose this is where my Ne kicked in. If he didn't understand someone's behaviour, I could come up with various reasons as to why x did y, something that he had difficulty with at times. I did my best to explain the viewpoints of others.

I'd like to think that I was nonjudgmental with him. I certainly hope I was.

I also had feelings for him, essentially from when we first met. I found him to be compelling, intelligent, and attractive, so the crush I realized I had on him was not a big deal, nor was it a surprise. Early on in our friendship, he admitted to having feelings for me too-- a little crush. (He was in a committed relationship at the time). I didn't take this to mean anything more than what it was. I intrigued him, he found me attractive; it was natural and not a big deal in the slightest.

During the course of our three year friendship there were a couple of girlfriends, a couple of breakups-- including one that shook his very core-- career changes, graduating, house hunting, and blows of depression-- both him and I. We were not close for all of it. He had quit his job at our former workplace, he found love in an new relationship, I had graduated highschool and we no longer hung out or chatted. We drifted apart. I was fine with this. I'm not clingy with friends at all. I dislike being smothered and clinged to myself, and I value independence. I figured, "Hey, we were close at that part of our lives, and that was cool". I never stopped thinking of him as a really good friend though, and never stopped having feelings for him.

Some time in middle of my first term at university, we began meeting up again. It was as if those months of little to no communication had never happened, and we picked up right where we left off. A little while after this, him and his girlfriend broke up. He was devastated, confused, angry, hurt and lost. He told me how disappointed he was in himself that he lost sight of who he was. He fell into a slight depression and fantasized about suicide. He admitted that this was the only girl that he had ever truly loved, and the carpet was just yanked out from under his feet by this break up.

I was there for him every single day. What he really needed was someone to listen, and reassure him, and I did that for him. He'd text me constantly, despite disliking texting. He'd call me after he realized that this ex was cheating on him, or when he had to step back into his old apartment to gather things-- he needed my support. I did what I could. I don't know if it was enough, but I tried. It broke my heart to see him hurting so much. I never told him this, but I'd cry alone, just knowing how hurt he was.

Time passed, and he began healing. A few months after the breakup, he kissed me-- either despite, or because of my feelings for him that he knew that I still had. Our physical relationship had begun.

I never once thought that there was really going to be anything more here. I took his kissing me as a "I'm distraught over the loss of my relationship, I haven't had my sexual needs met in a very long time, this is a substitute". I didn't take this to mean that he had deeper feelings for me. It was a nice thought to think, but not true at all, so I never pondered this seriously.

[EDIT: He alluded to having feelings for me (ie. "We fight like a couple, there's obviously something between us"), yet he never explicitly said that he did have feelings for me. I feel stupid for not catching this detail.]

We both agreed that this could happen without any sort of weirdness on our part. We were both attracted to each other in a physical manner. We explicitly talked about our dynamic, that we were always friends, first and foremost, and this would not change. There was never any confusion as to what "we" were, as there was no "us"- just two good friends. Were one of us to start feeling weird, or off-put by this change in dynamic, we would call it quits. Simple as that.

Oh yes, you can see where this is going. My feelings deepened for him, and I realized that the reservations I had about doing this-- "Cosmicjourney, you KNOW you will get hurt because of this"-- were true. I always knew that they were true, even while it happened. I relished the opportunity to be intimate with someone that I truly cared deeply for, despite knowing the grief it would cause me later. I am so disappointed in myself for letting my desires get the best of me when I knew better. I know that what I'm feeling right now has been worsened due to my inconsiderate actions.

I realized that I had never felt this way before. This was an intense like. (I would never use the word love so prematurely, but don't undermine the feelings of an intense like). I could go on and on about my current feelings for him, but this isn't necessary and just causes me further heartache. (Read on, so much for not elaborating about my feelings.)

The INTP began dating, as he had every right to do so. We began spending less and less time together. Still, he didn't forget about me completely, and we still texted/Skyped/IMed/met up. This was a very difficult period for me-- although I always knew it, the fact that he was dating someone else made it explicitly clear that the feelings I had for him were not mutual. It was a slap in the face being with him, thinking about him developing feelings for other women; holding them, and being intimate with him. When I looked at him, it was all I saw. When we were apart, I thought about his mannerisms, his smile, the time we spent together, and I missed him like crazy. This is currently all I can think about. I can't get this off of my mind, and I'm like a broken faucet, I can't stop crying.

I knew that I had to take a break/end this. I NEED to get over him. So I did this. I told him how I felt and that I understood that he didn't feel the same way. I told him that I'd have to cut off contact with for the time being to heal and get over him, and that he'd be deleted off of Facebook, Skype, my cell, etc and not to contact me. He told me that he understood. This was basically the extent of our last conversation, face to face. I additionally face the ENFP-ish dilemma of never being able to fully get over anyone. I wonder if our friendship is ruined/has ended for good.

I'm heartbroken, but I'll live. I wonder if he misses me. I wonder if I ever cross his mind. To think along these lines is torture, so I try not to do it, but my mind gets the better of me.

As of late, I've been analyzing our friendship, hence the thread. I never once thought that it was odd that a 16 year old and a 25 year old became friends, like so many of my peers did. I suppose I just want to know what he saw in me, is all.

Certain things he said in conversations have stuck out to me, and I keep playing them on a loop:

"I hate using this word, but I cherish this friendship".

"Besides my brother, you have been the one person that I could count on, and has been there for me through this whole [break-up] thing".

"You're my confidant. I've told you things that very few people, or no one knows about. I trust you. I don't want to lose you."

Upon telling sending him this text: "...I'm realistic. I know we wouldn't work out anyway. Strip everything away, the age difference, the culture/religion, the difference in experience, and leave just our characters, and there's nothing there", he sent me this:
"Wrong, you fool. Strip that all away and we're oddly similar. When's the last time we had a lull in a conversation?"

The last email he ever sent me, shortly after I told him I needed some time away:
"Can't do this."

He was my only really close friend. I don't have real, authentic friendships with depth. I have an inability to connect to other people. I've lost the only good friend I've ever had, and my loneliness is getting worse.

I think I took this friendship for granted.

This doesn't make it any easier, but sometimes that happens. I myself have had a female ENFP friend where I literally *cherished* her friendship and we were EXTREMELY close - I could talk to her about anything in the world - there was nothing I needed to hold back. That's an awesome thing to have. And she was a truly wonderful person and I'm thankful to have had her as a friend. But, there are so many other variables - timing, quirky habits that get annoying, she always wants to go out/I always want to stay in, age differences (this was a HUGE factor for me as well - actually a dealbreaker - but she was older than me by about 9 years), etc, etc, etc. There's just so many things that can make it not work.

From reading your long post, it seems clear to me that he really thought highly of you and thought you were a great person. Otherwise, the INTP wouldn't have bothered to spend that amount of time with you, investing in the deep friendship. If he didn't find you amazing, he would have halted the progression of the relationship. Once when I had my heart broken and was in the dumps, an ENTP said something to me that I'll never forget: Sometimes 2 people can love each other, but it still doesn't work out for various other reasons. This was a wake-up call for me, as I always thought (in my young naivety) that if 2 people loved each other, that it would AUTOMATICALLY work - it was just a "given". But, that's not the case. Life events, and personalities, and timing, and other variables all have to work together and mesh, otherwise it won't work.

I feel your pain and I know my words probably don't help, but just know that time does heal all wounds. He may always have a really significant place in your heart - and that's a good thing - but, there will come a time where you'll be ready to move into something new.

As for taking him for granted, I'm not sure I see that in your post. It just seems like one of those situations I describe above, where 2 people connect and think each other are amazing individuals, but for reasons unexplained, it just doesn't work, it just isn't meant to be. Don't blame yourself. Cherish the experience - I'm sure he does.
 
Joined
Jul 8, 2010
Messages
450
MBTI Type
ESFJ
What are admirable traits in a friend?
Pretty much what all the other INTPs have listed.

Can you provide us with examples of "improving your quality of life"?
I have an associate who frequently suggests new activities to do and who always has some new bit of information or skill to tell/teach me. I don't feel like I've lost some of my braincells and they don't drain my energy.

On the other hand, an old friend I met in my teen years has stagnated. They were never too mentally quick to begin with, but now it's to the point where they don't even want to cure their ignorance. Once they asked how [crude] oil was made and I tried to explain the process which involves fossils and they would not have it. No matter how much "proof" I showed them, the entire thing was "impossible" in their mind. Top the willful ignorance with their increasing affinity to sit around and drink/smoke/whine themselves into madness and you should be able to understand why I no longer associate with them.
 
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