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Thread: ENxP - T or F?

  1. #31
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicodemus_au View Post
    InvisibleJim may have a point - maybe I am a Judger rather than a Perceiver.

    I will make quick decisions. For instance, I went to the shopping centre on Sunday to have a look at computer monitors, compared prices in a few shops, and decided that. since my laptop was on its last legs, it would be cheaper to buy an all-in-one, rather than buying a monitor then and a laptop at a later date.

    I like to get information as soon as possible, and enjoy planning things; I've decided to go travelling towards the end of next year (18 months away), and am already looking at small group tours, and know which ones I want to go on.

    I make lists of things to do and read.

    I also prefer a structured environment (school) to an unstructured one (university). Moving to new cities or schools is difficult, although starting new jobs isn't. I've had contract jobs rather than any fixed job, and I don't like the idea of being tied down to one job forever. I'm in the public service, and don't like being a cog in the machine; I want a position of fame and authority - not in the corporate world, but in the arts or teaching.

    I wanted to be treated as an adult at an early age, and people often said that I was 14 going on 40. Friends' girlfriends are often surprised that I'm the same age; they think I'm a lot older.

    I'm nearly always the one who arranges social activities with my friends - although it tends to be where we should meet and when, rather than details.

    I try to get work done early, if it's interesting. Putting garbage bins out - that can wait. Essay writing, I get stuck into several weeks before the due date, and don't do things at the last minute. Except for editing the History thesis.

    Physical movements: I tend to stride everywhere with great rapidity, and can appear quite determined.

    I am organised about things I consider important - I keep notes on the books I read, and have folders and log books. On the other hand, my room is full of piles of papers, books and CDs, and I can be quite messy.

    I wouldn't describe myself as aggressive - hearty, certainly, although also argumentative and opinionated. At school, most people knew who I was. I had a very healthy ego, although was also self-critical. I was both the class clown and a very high achiever. I had little trouble standing up for myself, and telling people what I thought. I don't pick fights, but I got into several in primary school, and gave as good as I got. I got detention once in Year 3, and a letter was sent to my parents; what I objected to was that I'd been accused of swearing at a teacher (which I hadn't). I quarrelled a lot with my father when growing up, because we can both be very stubborn. I can be very dominating and take control of groups; I was class president in sixth grade (although had a definite J vice-president - she was more practical and implemented my ideas), and was always the kid teachers got to thank visitors. I naturally expected to be the centre of attention, and still don't like being on the sidelines. I was an interesting child, but more than a bit of a handful.

    However, I came down with anxiety in Yr. 11 (the result of my brother having chronic fatigue, the house spending 12 months being knocked down and renovated, and worry about going to university). I lost confidence in myself, and became quite defensive, socially withdrawn and hesitant - to the point where I thought of myself as an introvert. I've felt confined and trapped, because I haven't been in control of my life - I haven't had much money (contract jobs), haven't had enough mental or social stimulation, and don't like having to fit in with my parents. I've had several different very distinct ideas of what I want to do. I've settled on teaching; I started a permanent job yesterday, and will use that as a springboard to save money, go travelling overseas next year, teach English overseas for a while (probably Turkey), do the Dip.Ed. when I return to Australia... So maybe I DO have plans, but haven't had the wherewithal to put them into action.

    I'm very interested in the creative arts; love acting, and have thought of becoming a playwright. (Apparently an ENTJ trait.) In some ways, I identify with Richard Wagner - and various Roman emperors.

    I've also got an extraordinary memory, and can clearly remember (in detail) things that happened to me when I was 4.

    My writing style is very authoritative and forceful, often ironic - my essays make it clear exactly what I think, why, and why Critic A is a knave and a fool, and why Critic B is an incompetent bungler. On the other hand, I'm a compulsive drafter, don't need all the materials to start working, and the essay plan tends to be pretty rough and ready. I'm a natural public speaker, and feel in my element when I'm leading a group discussion.

    And, yes, people complain that I'm being scornful when I'm simply stating my opinion.

    So maybe I am an ENTJ?!

    BUT
    I'm not very practical, my room tends to be very messy (I have too many books for my room, and will regularly reorganise my bookshelves); I will forget to do the mundane things (paying bills, getting things posted), and let other people take care of them; I'm not good at managing money (because I haven't had a permanent job until now) and tend to live beyond my means (although look at Julius Caesar and Wagner).

    I don't think of myself as a punctual person. Often I'll be a good 15 minutes early for appointments; on the other hand, I'll also leave at the last minute. I have more sense of time than my parents (both Js), and am often ready to go long before they are - unless I get sidetracked, and think that a parcel of books is more important than getting to work on time.
    based on this, you sound like an ENFP Enneagram 3 (welcome to the club )
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  2. #32

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    I don't care much about popularity, and I'm certainly not a popularity seeker. I try not to win acceptance, but want to be respected. I like people, and tend to be friendly and engaging; I find it easy to talk to people, and am interested in them; I can work a room, and be diplomatic and charming. I make friends over time. Although I will trust some people reasonably quickly, I'm more likely to be slow and wary to let them near me, even when they want to be friends with me. Under stress, rather than making myself more likeable, I become determinedly individualistic and don't try to fit in, either being quite standoffish and condescending, or playing an exaggerated version of myself, to the point of behaving like a mid-Victorian Colonel Blimp ignorant of popular culture. For all that, a lot of people like me and are drawn to me, and I don't worry about those who hated me at school, unless they try to bully me.

    I'm unquestionably E rather than I. I like being the centre of attention (I need an audience), am very talkative, lively, energetic, often domineering in conversation, come across as confident, and can be quite spontaneous. However, I need time to myself, and can be very reserved - but I can't stand being alone for a day or longer. I'm not particularly hedonistic. I can also be intensely misanthropic - what I call my Tiberius mood.

  3. #33

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    Take a look at this thread:

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...tch-uncle.html

    Might be useful in the ENTJ decision.

  4. #34
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    @nicodemus_au: I'm not seeing much of any Ne-attitude in your writing. Not enough to call you an Ne-dom (ENTP or ENFP). You sound like a Te-dom with auxiliary Ni. The sum of the following parts leads me to ENTJ (Te/Ni/Se/Fi)...

    None of this resonates with me:

    Quote Originally Posted by nicodemus_au
    I like works that have something to say about the world, or that are dramatisations of ideas (Wagner, Shaw, Chesterton). I enjoy Shakespeare, opera, Greek tragedy, and can be deeply moved by them
    I prefer a less mellow-dramatic delivery of ideas. Shakespeare, opera and Greek tragedy are heavily cushioned in emotional stuff & fluff, which must be tough for Ne/Ti to process because I don't get it.

    Quote Originally Posted by nicodemus_au
    I also prefer a structured environment (school) to an unstructured one (university). Moving to new cities or schools is difficult, although starting new jobs isn't
    Te?

    Quote Originally Posted by nicodemus_au
    self-critical
    Ni?

    Quote Originally Posted by nicodemus_au
    Essay writing, I get stuck into several weeks before the due date, and don't do things at the last minute. Except for editing the History thesis.
    Te/Ni?

    Quote Originally Posted by nicodemus_au
    My writing style is very authoritative and forceful, often ironic - my essays make it clear exactly what I think, why, and why Critic A is a knave and a fool, and why Critic B is an incompetent bungler.
    Te/Ni?

    Quote Originally Posted by nicodemus_au
    And, yes, people complain that I'm being scornful when I'm simply stating my opinion.
    Te/Ni?

    Quote Originally Posted by nicodemus_au
    I quarrelled a lot with my father when growing up...
    Te/Fi?

    Quote Originally Posted by nicodemus_au
    Political decisions need to do what is right, not what is popular. I prefer politicians to be competent rather than try to please everyone.
    Te/Fi?

    Quote Originally Posted by nicodemus_au
    I don't feel the need to compliment everyone all the time, or be liked by everyone (I probably won't like them either).
    Te/Ni/Fi?

    Quote Originally Posted by nicodemus_au
    I don't like being proven wrong or feeling foolish, and will pretend to know more knowledge than I have rather than reveal my ignorance.
    Te/Ni/Fi?

    That does not describe an Ne-dom with auxiliary Ti. An ENTP is not narrow-minded and unteachable. With a little help from tertiary Fe, an ENTP might even apologize for their ignorance. How would you define dominant extroverted intuition as it relates to an ENTP?

    Quote Originally Posted by nicodemus_au
    I've also got an extraordinary memory, and can clearly remember (in detail) things that happened to me when I was 4.
    Se/Si

    Quote Originally Posted by nicodemus_au
    I try to stick to my principles, although my values are constantly evolving, depending on what I discover. I can be contemptuous / scornful if someone violates my values; e.g., Post-Modernism (against both reason and the individual), religious fundamentalists.
    Fi

  5. #35
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    That does not describe an Ne-dom with auxiliary Ti. An ENTP is not narrow-minded and unteachable. With a little help from tertiary Fe, an ENTP might even apologize for their ignorance. How would you define dominant extroverted intuition as it relates to an ENTP?
    With you up to that point. There are all sorts of ENTPs who won't learn a goddamn thing from someone else. They've got to learn it for themselves, or they're not learning it at all. Most likely, they tend to be male.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    With you up to that point. There are all sorts of ENTPs who won't learn a goddamn thing from someone else. They've got to learn it for themselves, or they're not learning it at all. Most likely, they tend to be male.
    Give me the keys and step aside! lol. Yeah, I identify with you wanting to learn on your own. I do really like learning from people that are on the cutting edge of technology; confess all of your nerdy little secrets. I was thinking about what nicodemus_au said, "I don't like being proven wrong or feeling foolish, and will pretend to know more knowledge than I have rather than reveal my ignorance." I don't think I do that. Do you do that? I brainstorm and ramble on about stuff, so it may appear I know more than I know, but it's not intended to be smoke & mirrors. I seriously want to know if I'm inaccurate about the connections I've made.

  7. #37
    Senior Member redcheerio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    Give me the keys and step aside! lol. Yeah, I identify with you wanting to learn on your own. I do really like being taught by people I admire that are on the cutting edge of technology; you know, confess all of your nerdy little secrets. I was thinking about what nicodemus_au said, "I don't like being proven wrong or feeling foolish, and will pretend to know more knowledge than I have rather than reveal my ignorance." I really don't think I do that. Do you do that? I brainstorm and ramble on about stuff, so it may appear I know more than I know, but it's not intended to be smoke and mirrors for the sole purpose of "not revealing ignorance". I seriously want to know if I'm inaccurate about the connections I've made.
    I've been told I sometimes give the impression of knowing more than I do about some things, which I don't do on purpose, and I'm not sure how it is that I give that impression. I don't deliberately show off (except when I'm kidding around), I make an effort to explain things clearly, and I don't use big words, so I'm not sure how that happens.

    I'm guessing maybe it has something to do with my Ne picking up on the gist of things and the lingo, so I can talk the high level talk without knowing the details? So like while I'm learning things from the top down, most other people are learning things from the bottom up, and they assume that everyone learns from the bottom up. So when I reveal knowledge from the 2nd level down from the top, they think I've built up all the way up from the bottom floor, when really I've only just gotten there from the top floor? Dunno.

  8. #38
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd Girl View Post
    Give me the keys and step aside! lol. Yeah, I identify with you wanting to learn on your own. I do really like learning from people that are on the cutting edge of technology; confess all of your nerdy little secrets. I was thinking about what nicodemus_au said, "I don't like being proven wrong or feeling foolish, and will pretend to know more knowledge than I have rather than reveal my ignorance." I don't think I do that. Do you do that? I brainstorm and ramble on about stuff, so it may appear I know more than I know, but it's not intended to be smoke & mirrors. I seriously want to know if I'm inaccurate about the connections I've made.
    this happens to me all the freaking time. I'll start rambling about something all of a sudden people will assume I'm an expert and blame me harshly for some small detail I didn't quite spout out correctly, and I'm like "hey I'm not an expert, I'm just rambling, it's what I do"
    I think this is an Ne dom thing
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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  9. #39
    Senior Member redcheerio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    this happens to me all the freaking time. I'll start rambling about something all of a sudden people will assume I'm an expert and blame me harshly for some small detail I didn't quite spout out correctly, and I'm like "hey I'm not an expert, I'm just rambling, it's what I do"
    I think this is an Ne dom thing
    Yeah, I always wondered that about myself, too.

    Mystery solved!

  10. #40

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    Good lord! I am an ENTJ. I know who I am - splendid! Thank you, everybody, particularly InvisibleJim and Nerdgirl, for their perceptive remarks, and Allegorystory for the Dutch Uncle article!

    I'm heartily relieved that not all ENTJs are uncaring power-crazed sadistic dictators (Thatcher, Julius Caesar, Wagner, Goebbels, Napoleon [admirable and a great man], Lenin, Saddam Hussein)! Too many of the descriptions of the ENTJ sound like the late, unlamented Diocletian. George Bernard Shaw, Patrick Stewart / Captain Picard, Peter Sellers and John Cleese are much better company. Apparently Colin Baker's Dr. Who was an ENTJ - Bingo! That's how I was at school!

    The description given in "The Development of ENTJ Children" (http://personalitycafe.com/entj-arti...-children.html) sounds exactly like me as a child.

    I tend to (or have in the past!):
    Be warm, friendly, kind, helpful, hearty, dynamic, forceful, enthusiastic, energetic, expansive, generous, very talkative - live life with gusto
    Altruistic; politically liberal
    Be curious and want to learn about everything; value intellectual curiosity and an open mind
    Have an empirical brain; value reason and objectivity (one of the reasons why I was uncomfortable in an English Masters course run by Post-Modernists who maintained that such things did not exist, and everything was subjective - ANATHEMA!)
    Be dogmatic and opinionated; argumentative (but not - consciously? - aggressive); believe I'm right
    Be down to earth, frank, don't beat about the bush, realistic - 18th century "Damn your eyes, sir!" attitude
    Stand on principles (justice, fairness, honesty, integrity) against public opinion
    Independent
    Take charge, although I don't think of myself as the controlling type - often sit back and watch
    Decisive and impatient - I've been told that I rush like a bull at a gate
    Take life seriously - perfectionist; set very high standards for myself and others; conscientious; get frustrated with others who don't do what they're supposed to do (or what I want them to do!)
    Have a strong playful streak (singing Aeschylus's Persians to the tune of "Knees Up, Mother Brown", walking the cross country run very slowly while talking about the weather), and am good at making people laugh
    A good public speaker, and enjoy teaching people

    Some of the remarks I've read about ENTJ mannerisms are also familiar. I have a penetrating voice that can be heard across a crowded restaurant; and I tend to march briskly. Remarks about the raised eyebrow also strike home!

    That being so, I'll listen to The Ride of the Valkyries at full volume, put on my toga and laurel wreath (you may address me as "deus et dominus"), and play Civilisation as practice for my plot to take over the world. How shall I do this, I hear you ask? I have replaced the dentists of all prominent figures with my agents; these agents have filled their illustrious clients' teeth with remote-controlled explosive. At a given signal, I will press the button - and heads will not so much roll as explode. Without any strong hands at the helm, the world will be plunged into chaos - and I shall take control. Power! POWER! NOTHING IN THE UNIVERSE CAN STOP ME NOW!

    All praise to the Great One! All praise to me! Bow down before me planets! Bow down stars! Bow down whole galaxies and worship the Great One! The me! The great, all powerful me!
    Mwahahahaha!

    (Exits stage left, singing "Tomorrow belongs to me".)

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