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  1. #51
    ~dangerous curves ahead~
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    Default to answer the OP.

    For INTPs: I'm open if anyone wants to offer for ENTPs.

    1. Be gentler on yourself and on others. Not everything can be perfect, and no amount of wishing, projecting, nor forcing your view on it/others will make it so.

    2. Turn off the critical drive, on yourself, on others. Let Ne breathe a little. Or just breathe.

    3. Just because someone is simpler, and wants something done easy vs perfectly, doesn't mean they're stupid. It is not always your way or the highway. There are more ways to live than one.

    4. You do not know everything. No one does.

    5. Listen. Everyone has a story. Suspend criticism and just listen.

    6. Learn to take criticism without getting defensive.

    7. When stuck in a Ti loop. Stop a moment. Breathe. Go back to what is familiar. Refocus. Take comfort in real things. A walk on the beach. The feel of sand. A cup of tea.

    8. Just because someone does not love you perfectly, the way you want, does not mean they do not love you at all.

    9. Beware fixation. And projection. Pain is inevitable in life, but don't fixate on loss/pain and prolong your suffering over things that have since passed. What is past its time, should be past your grief.

    10. While you may be masters at understanding, acceptance of things/people/advice comes slowly. Work on accepting vs criticism will probably help moving on in life.

    2 cents. Don't kill me now.

  2. #52
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Why should judgment be limited to one person's experiences? Why can't we learn and adjust based on other information including the experiences of others?

    Limiting our judgments to our own experiences means that we have to learn every life lesson the hard way. I can't imagine the School of Hard Knocks being the preferred method of any introverted intuitive for forming judgments.
    Would it not also be daft to believe everything you're told or read?

    It's a question of balance. In the past however I found it much easier to convince my INTJ friend once he had experienced it to be true himself rather than just me trying to persuade him that his conception was incorrect.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  3. #53
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aelan View Post
    7. When stuck in a Ti loop. Stop a moment. Breathe. Go back to what is familiar. Refocus. Take comfort in real things. A walk on the beach. The feel of sand. A cup of tea.
    Bloomin good advice but also I find it singulalry impossible to recall when I'm stuck

    Catch 22

    Quote Originally Posted by aelan View Post
    I'm open if anyone wants to offer for ENTPs.
    Don't be such a smartass.. the end.

    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  4. #54
    ~dangerous curves ahead~
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Bloomin good advice but also I find it singulalry impossible to recall when I'm stuck

    Catch 22
    it is that moment when you feel your systems start firing up and a swamp of thoughts start getting jumbled and feelings are mixed in, and you start going into tiny, tiny details....

    that's when you have to step back...

    sorry if it is harsh..

    Don't be such a smartass.. the end.

    I try. I've paid for it many times over.

  5. #55
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Would it not also be daft to believe everything you're told or read?

    It's a question of balance. In the past however I found it much easier to convince my INTJ friend once he had experienced it to be true himself rather than just me trying to persuade him that his conception was incorrect.
    Of course it would be daft, but not any more daft that discounting every bit of information you have not encountered with your own five senses.

    My point is not that INTJMom's experiences and perceptions are incorrect, but that she is generalizing inaccurately. My argument is that she is seeing causation where only correlation exists.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I don't think it's a type thing at all. I know plenty of ES types who will treat your head (not to mention your life) like their personal playground.

    And between my INTP and I, the one you have to worry about exploring your head is me, not him. I want to understand. He wants to be left alone.
    So true! This very issue has caused more than one fight over the years between hubby and me.. he's XSXJ... he digs and digs and I resist and resist. He, even after it happening many times, is still amazed at my resistance to his meddling in my thoughts and gets very offended when I point out what he's doing. There's such a thing as too curious!

    No, not an INTP problem. If I am curious, I'll just ask directly and state "I'm curious.. why do you think that?" But I'll only be curious if it doesn't sound like it fits a pattern I've already seen.... and its, certainly, not frivolous grazing.

  7. #57
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aelan View Post
    it is that moment when you feel your systems start firing up and a swamp of thoughts start getting jumbled and feelings are mixed in, and you start going into tiny, tiny details....

    that's when you have to step back...

    sorry if it is harsh..
    Noo not harsh! Good advice

    You know though that at the time those things which are looming large in my focus are so not details Isn't it great having a zoom function built in Just wish it wasn't auto zoom. It tends to focus only on what's in between you and what you really want to look at
    Quote Originally Posted by aelan View Post
    I try. I've paid for it many times over.
    Trying... classic ENTP
    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Of course it would be daft, but not any more daft that discounting every bit of information you have not encountered with your own five senses.

    My point is not that INTJMom's experiences and perceptions are incorrect, but that she is generalizing inaccurately. My argument is that she is seeing causation where only correlation exists.
    That's not precisely where I was going though I admire the analysis (that's not supposed to be patronising, I really do like how it's stated so succinctly).

    As far as I see it if you've always hated the taste of apples then you're liable to avoid apples. If someone tells you that there's this apple that tastes like no other then yes you may be tempted to try it but until you do it's tempting to simply avoid apples as every single one you've tried doesn't agree with you. Sure that's a shame and apple lovers will try to dissuade you but that's your experience of things. I'm not saying that one approach is more valid than any other, only that they are valid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Seanan View Post
    So true! This very issue has caused more than one fight over the years between hubby and me.. he's XSXJ... he digs and digs and I resist and resist. He, even after it happening many times, is still amazed at my resistance to his meddling in my thoughts and gets very offended when I point out what he's doing. There's such a thing as too curious!
    Do you find that it's because he's looking for the solid foundation points for your thinking and decisions where as you only really have general conceptions and theories?

    I ask because my ISTJ friend has tried to pin down my thinking on more than one occasion only to get frustrated that the "certainty" which he pinned down not five seconds ago has somehow come loose and now my answer seems to be the opposite of what it once was.
    Quote Originally Posted by Seanan View Post
    No, not an INTP problem. If I am curious, I'll just ask directly and state "I'm curious.. why do you think that?" But I'll only be curious if it doesn't sound like it fits a pattern I've already seen.... and its, certainly, not frivolous grazing.
    You don't ask blunt, reasonless questions? You don't play games with people where you try and draw out the answer you think they'll give so you can lay the prepared counter point on them?

    Well that sounds like no fun. No fun at all!!


    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  8. #58
    Senior Member bluebell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluebell View Post
    But I tend to compulsively observe and try to work out what makes people tick. I never ever ask intrusive questions though - I just observe and think about it.
    Just remembered I did send a PM once asking about thought processes. How about 'almost never asks intrusive questions'.
    ...so much smoke pouring out of each chromosome.

  9. #59
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluebell View Post
    Just remembered I did send a PM once asking about thought processes. How about 'almost never asks intrusive questions'.
    Any particular reason? I'm just wondering if it's an active choice to use a different tac or if it's a by product of how you yourself like to be treated... which it could be said I'm walking rough shod over right now....
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  10. #60
    Senior Member bluebell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Any particular reason? I'm just wondering if it's an active choice to use a different tac or if it's a by product of how you yourself like to be treated... which it could be said I'm walking rough shod over right now....
    Do you mean any particular reason why I PMed someone, or any particular reason why I don't ask questions?

    If it's the former, I was just really confused by a post (heh, I've been sick for a little while, not thinking that clearly).

    I guess it also depends on what people mean by intrusive questions. I do occasionally ask questions, like 'are you a visual thinker'. But generally it's only people I know reasonably well and in context - and I say what it's like for me too. For me, intrusive questions are about personal details and personal decisions, and it's how it's asked too. So, I dunno.
    ...so much smoke pouring out of each chromosome.

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