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[MBTI General] I'm Not Good at Being a "Girl"

MiasmaResonance

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I am perfectly capable of decent makeup application. I didn't realize that being an NT meant you had to have no talent in that area, or similar areas. That's not to say I prefer a lot of makeup..or anything girly for that matter, but I can do it and do it quite well, I think.

It's just a preference. I can do it, but I'd rather not because..what's in it for me besides superficial amusement that I'll be bored with in no time?

I don't want to riot because it doesn't really matter all that much in the grand scheme of things.

Just like what you like. The right people will take you seriously if you are worthy.
 

mmhmm

meinmeinmein!
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
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i can't imagine anything more girly than having a vagina.
the rest is just, frosting.

i don't think the ability to take a shit in front of jock,
trumpet noises and all, makes me less of a girl.
or to stuff myself in a tiny outfit jock made for me out
of rubberbands makes me more of a girl.
 

entropie

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You should marry me, I am exceptionally good at being a girl :).

I've to say from firsthand experience that I saw ( not my own :) ), there is a lot of pressure society is putting onto woman and the majority of this is creating artificaial and superficial beings out of them who no reasonable man would like to date. my advice I can give to woman in that regards is that the best knowledge about what really makes you attractive is obtained by asking the people you want to appear attractive towards. Lifing after a societal norm or after what television tells you, will never make you happy.
 

Octarine

The Eighth Colour
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so
the best knowledge about what really makes you attractive is obtained by asking the people you want to appear attractive towards..

And the answer they'll tell you: be yourself!
 

You

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i can't imagine anything more girly than having a vagina.
the rest is just, frosting.

tits are good with frosting, but are not frosting. you shouldn't confuse the two.
 

xisnotx

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If you have a vagina you succeed at being a girl.

I think these expectations that girls have are largely put on them by themselves. I know that I've never looked at a person who very obviously looked like a girl and questioned her womanhood due to her "not acting like one". If girls acted like girls, then girls would be boring.
 

Red Herring

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I went through all these pages to make sure you haven't already gotten the most obvious answer:

I am biologically female, but I am hella awkward at being what people think that means.

I try to curl my hair and it comes out a mess, I try to apply my makeup but it looks caked-on and obvious, I try to giggle and I sound like I'm sneezing or horking, I try to apply self-tanner and I look like a patchy crocodile... I'm just not good at being conventionally pretty, a conventional girl. I don't know why I try, I think it has a lot to do with getting people to leave me alone about why I am who I am. It got tiring to explain why I think it's much more important to be complimented on my intellect and not my "pretty face" and expecting to be treated like an intellectual equal to others instead of being patronized.

I say we riot, ladies. Who's with me? :harley:

(Or I can stop caring and put up with the flack. Whatever, rioting is much more interesting.)

A lot of people tell me that my personality is way too masculine, and it offends me only because the traits they're talking about are inherently human. Why is rationality, logic, or being stoic masculine? As a woman, I'm expected to be whiny, emotionally-driven, unfunny, and illogical. I'm sorry I can't live up to those very dignifying and natural expectations.

I am a freak of nature.

No, sweety, you are a female INTP *drumroll*

Seriously, before the Nfs start throwing bunnies and unicorns at me in anger: Of course this isn't limited to any type - but it does seem common for NT women (as others have already mentioned).

That's the one thing. In fact, I expected a much more deep rooted uncomfort when I read the thread title. But since when is femininity about makeup and giggling and behaving like a teenage barbie doll????

No being able to do the barbie thing just means you have arrived in the 21st century and have a few brain cells to put together. Nothing more and nothing less. That doesn't mean it is inherently wrong to be a barbie when one enjoys it. It means that it is ridiculous to buy into that social pressure that you have to be one. Who the heel defines what makes you feminine? You or some magazine article?

Doing the barbie thing is a question of a few simple skills one can acquire. But if you don't feel like it - more power to you!

Maybe I am priviledged here because I grew up in an environment where I was actually mocked when I prettied up. I remember sitting down at the breakfast table in some nice cloths or wearing some makeup or jewelry once in a while as a teenager and my ENTP mum would inevitable greet me in a mocking voice: "Oh, hello, madame!". Anything too conventionally feminine was sort of implicitely looked down upon. So I never even tried to pull off that stuff until my twenties and usually make a conscious decision every morning: do I go neat or comfortable today? Default modus is comfy cloths, glasses, no makeup. Meeting people or just-feeling-like-it modus is presentable cloths, contact lenses, slight makeup. But is is almost always a conscious decision.

The same thing goes for mating behavior and playing the damsel in distress. I HATE that stuff and have to make a conscious decision every time whether I want to play that role or not.

Most of my friends are guys but when I am with a group of females, I usually feel extremely uncomfortable. One on one with my INTJ friend is something else. We enjoy being able to let out the girl inside in each others company, often in a semi-serious semi-ironic manner (think Jane Austen movies and pink muffins)

maybe you should get yourself some ungirly NT lady friends :D
 

Totenkindly

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Maybe I am priviledged here because I grew up in an environment where I was actually mocked when I prettied up. I remember sitting down at the breakfast table in some nice cloths or wearing some makeup or jewelry once in a while as a teenager and my ENTP mum would inevitable greet me in a mocking voice: "Oh, hello, madame!".

I like your mum. :)
 

Mole

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Mar 20, 2008
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Mockery

Maybe I am priviledged here because I grew up in an environment where I was actually mocked when I prettied up. I remember sitting down at the breakfast table in some nice cloths or wearing some makeup or jewelry once in a while as a teenager and my ENTP mum would inevitable greet me in a mocking voice: "Oh, hello, madame!"

Oh Red Herring, I can hear your mother mocking you now. I can hear her tone of voice. I can see the turn of her lip. And I can feel your emotional pain at being mocked by your very own mother.

But what is heart-breaking is that you believe you were privileged to be mocked.

And why not? You were emotionally dependent on your mother, and so your emotional survival depended on translating your own abuse into privilege.

And what a heritage it has left you. Today you are a translator who speaks in the voice of others, and your own pain remains unspoken.
 

Red Herring

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Oh Red Herring, I can hear your mother mocking you now. I can hear her tone of voice. I can see the turn of her lip. And I can feel your emotional pain at being mocked by your very own mother.

But what is heart-breaking is that you believe you were privileged to be mocked.

And why not? You were emotionally dependent on your mother, and so your emotional survival depended on translating your own abuse into privilege.

And what a heritage it has left you. Today you are a translator who speaks in the voice of others, and your own pain remains unspoken.

Maybe I didn't phrase that correctly. The priviledge was growing up without many of the restrictions others had to endure and being raised by a strong independent woman who in many respects served and still serves as a role model. I never forgave her the mocking though and do know that - while she loves all of her kids dearly - she often has a hard time expressing that - or rather, her way of doing it is too rough and tumble for my taste. (It is probably the result of growing up as the youngest subling and constantly having to stand up against her older brothers). I only adressed this as an adult and she is now making a serious effort to find a common language. My world will never be hers but we have a fairly good relationship.

As for translation, I very much speak in my own voice. And an interpreter does not speak in the voices of others - that is a very common misconception about this profession.

Anyway, back on topic:
The key is probably having a choice. You should be able to go either way and switch as often as you want. There is no need to settle for one or the other. I don't know how old you are or where you live, but chaces are you'll meet more likeminded people as you move forward, maybe into a bigger city, mix with folks from different faculties, collect experiences and expand your horizon. God knows I was relieved when I discovered that there was a world beyond my little home town, cozy as it was!
 

Mole

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Tarry

Maybe I didn't phrase that correctly. The priviledge was growing up without many of the restrictions others had to endure and being raised by a strong independent woman who in many respects served and still serves as a role model. I never forgave her the mocking though and do know that - while she loves all of her kids dearly - she often has a hard time expressing that - or rather, her way of doing it is too rough and tumble for my taste. (It is probably the result of growing up as the youngest subling and constantly having to stand up against her older brothers). I only adressed this as an adult and she is now making a serious effort to find a common language. My world will never be hers but we have a fairly good relationship.

As for translation, I very much speak in my own voice. And an interpreter does not speak in the voices of others - that is a very common misconception about this profession.

Anyway, back on topic:
The key is probably having a choice. You should be able to go either way and switch as often as you want. There is no need to settle for one or the other. I don't know how old you are or where you live, but chaces are you'll meet more likeminded people as you move forward, maybe into a bigger city, mix with folks from different faculties, collect experiences and expand your horizon. God knows I was relieved when I discovered that there was a world beyond my little home town, cozy as it was!

Yeah ...... I am reaching for something, I think I know what it is, but can I expess it?

Yes ....... I am reaching for the expression on your mother's face, and deeper, the expression on your face - it's you expressed.

As I have said before, you have a delightful intelligence and I read you like water, at the same time I want to say, stop, stop a minute, pause - after the waterfall, flow into the still pond below, before you continue your headlong rush down the mountainside. Tarry with, "Will o' the Mill", awhile, let time stop, and let us watch your mother's face.

For, "Will o' the Mill", by Robert Louis Stevenson click on -
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Will_o'_the_Mill
 

violet_crown

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I am biologically female, but I am hella awkward at being what people think that means.

I try to curl my hair and it comes out a mess, I try to apply my makeup but it looks caked-on and obvious, I try to giggle and I sound like I'm sneezing or horking, I try to apply self-tanner and I look like a patchy crocodile... I'm just not good at being conventionally pretty, a conventional girl. I don't know why I try, I think it has a lot to do with getting people to leave me alone about why I am who I am. It got tiring to explain why I think it's much more important to be complimented on my intellect and not my "pretty face" and expecting to be treated like an intellectual equal to others instead of being patronized.

I say we riot, ladies. Who's with me? :harley:

(Or I can stop caring and put up with the flack. Whatever, rioting is much more interesting.)

I have read your thread and I have a couple of thoughts/reactions I would like to share with you.

1)Anyone who takes that traditional, girly-girl bullshit seriously--either normatively or practically--is an idiot. I don't generally take my cues from idiots in other areas of my life, why should this one be any different?

2) I think its important to consider things in terms of the objective that they serve. It's silly to do "girly" things or act in girlish ways if your goal isn't what those who excel at those things generally aspire to, or worse because you're worried that its expected behavior. Be a woman and define your femininity in a way that propels you towards who you want to be ultimately, and the girl shit you didnt get before might come easier because you can see the logic of it.

Example. You say that you idolize women like Bette Davis and Judy Garland. I love Bette Davis. She was elegant, intelligent, was never afraid to speak her mind, and was famous for her commanding presence. But more than that, she was the first female president of the Academy, she took on the studio system when that shit was unheard of, and is generally regarded as a master of her craft. Taking Bette Davis as a model for becoming helps to prioritize the type of "womanly" activities and behaviors you engage in. If you want to be elegant, for instance, you have to care about your appearance. If that means going to a Mac store in the mall and taking a class on how to put on make-up so you aren't caking it on, then do that. If that means picking up a copy of Vogue so you can learn how to dress well, then do that. But whatever the case is suddenly these girly behaviors that were ritualized bullshit before now actually have a purpose and meaning. Hell, you might even discover that its fun.

3) As both a woman and a rational intuitive, you are a part of a group that is less than 10% of the population (if that). You're different. You will always be different. It's just who we are. In my mind at least, there's no need to bother with riots when your life's the real revolution. ;)
 

Pinker85

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Personally, I'm very athletic, independent, and outdoorsy. I played tons of sports as a kid while also being into astronomy and other nerdy pursuits. I train for triathlons while going to university so when I'm not in class or working (that was until I quit three days ago :p) I train twice a day which means I don't have time or energy or inclination to put effort into my looks - my physical appearance isn't really something I think about. I don't abhor fashion or manicures or anything like that actually - it just isn't important enough for me to invest time in. I say do the stuff that is fun for you to do. If you resent curling your hair don't curl your hair. If you resent being "girly" don't do it.
 

Mole

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The Bubbly Girl and the Strong, Silent Type

I am rather good at being a girl as I am naturally bubbly. But alas, I am a bloke and they want me to be the strong, silent type.
 
T

ThatGirl

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If you want to be good at being a girl all you have to do is think of your vagina as special. I swear it works.
 

KLessard

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I feel like I'm less me when I'm dressed up. You know? I only really do my hair/makeup for work.
I second that. And I'm lucky I work in a garden center, so looking chic while you are repotting a plant or carrying a bag of compost is not required, thank God. But I'm often afraid to put myself up too nice and look like something I'm not. Generally, church is the only place I go to kind of dressed up since I'm a church musician and it is required of us to look decent and all.
I've often considered that if I'd had a choice to be male or female, I would have totally been a man so I wouldn't have to care about the many superficial things women are expected to care about and invest in. What a curse! I so wish I could just get a buzz cut and not be complexed about it or worry what people would think.
 

Mole

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Probably the most important thing is to take things personally.
 

mmhmm

meinmeinmein!
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today i told jock that my shampoo has
positive charged ions (i think) and the
lotion stuff i put on my face has silicone
and my lip buffing cream has acid that
pulls off the dry skin on my lip.
 

Edgar

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I'm tired of people complimenting me on my intellect, or my sense of humor, or my lack of emotions, etc. I wish people would just compliment me on my pretty face instead. I mean, its OK - its not like I will try to rape you if you do.
 

JAVO

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oops, sorry [MENTION=12152]Hera[/MENTION]. I read the thread title as you weren't being a good girl.

:blush:
 
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