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  1. #61
    Senior Member MiasmaResonance's Avatar
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    I am perfectly capable of decent makeup application. I didn't realize that being an NT meant you had to have no talent in that area, or similar areas. That's not to say I prefer a lot of makeup..or anything girly for that matter, but I can do it and do it quite well, I think.

    It's just a preference. I can do it, but I'd rather not because..what's in it for me besides superficial amusement that I'll be bored with in no time?

    I don't want to riot because it doesn't really matter all that much in the grand scheme of things.

    Just like what you like. The right people will take you seriously if you are worthy.
    "A spill at the plant increased the phosphates in the lake and produced a scum of algae so thick that the swamp smell filled the air, infiltrating the genteel mansions. Debutantes cried over the misfortune of coming out in a season everyone would remember for its bad smell."

  2. #62
    meinmeinmein! mmhmm's Avatar
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    i can't imagine anything more girly than having a vagina.
    the rest is just, frosting.

    i don't think the ability to take a shit in front of jock,
    trumpet noises and all, makes me less of a girl.
    or to stuff myself in a tiny outfit jock made for me out
    of rubberbands makes me more of a girl.
    every normal man must be tempted, at times,
    to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag,
    and begin slitting throats.
    h.l. mencken

  3. #63
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    You should marry me, I am exceptionally good at being a girl .

    I've to say from firsthand experience that I saw ( not my own ), there is a lot of pressure society is putting onto woman and the majority of this is creating artificaial and superficial beings out of them who no reasonable man would like to date. my advice I can give to woman in that regards is that the best knowledge about what really makes you attractive is obtained by asking the people you want to appear attractive towards. Lifing after a societal norm or after what television tells you, will never make you happy.
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  4. #64
    The Eighth Colour Octarine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    the best knowledge about what really makes you attractive is obtained by asking the people you want to appear attractive towards..
    And the answer they'll tell you: be yourself!

  5. #65
    Senior Member You's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmhmm View Post
    i can't imagine anything more girly than having a vagina.
    the rest is just, frosting.
    tits are good with frosting, but are not frosting. you shouldn't confuse the two.
    Oh, its
    You
    ....

  6. #66
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    If you have a vagina you succeed at being a girl.

    I think these expectations that girls have are largely put on them by themselves. I know that I've never looked at a person who very obviously looked like a girl and questioned her womanhood due to her "not acting like one". If girls acted like girls, then girls would be boring.

  7. #67
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    I went through all these pages to make sure you haven't already gotten the most obvious answer:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hera View Post
    I am biologically female, but I am hella awkward at being what people think that means.

    I try to curl my hair and it comes out a mess, I try to apply my makeup but it looks caked-on and obvious, I try to giggle and I sound like I'm sneezing or horking, I try to apply self-tanner and I look like a patchy crocodile... I'm just not good at being conventionally pretty, a conventional girl. I don't know why I try, I think it has a lot to do with getting people to leave me alone about why I am who I am. It got tiring to explain why I think it's much more important to be complimented on my intellect and not my "pretty face" and expecting to be treated like an intellectual equal to others instead of being patronized.

    I say we riot, ladies. Who's with me?

    (Or I can stop caring and put up with the flack. Whatever, rioting is much more interesting.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hera View Post
    A lot of people tell me that my personality is way too masculine, and it offends me only because the traits they're talking about are inherently human. Why is rationality, logic, or being stoic masculine? As a woman, I'm expected to be whiny, emotionally-driven, unfunny, and illogical. I'm sorry I can't live up to those very dignifying and natural expectations.

    I am a freak of nature.
    No, sweety, you are a female INTP *drumroll*

    Seriously, before the Nfs start throwing bunnies and unicorns at me in anger: Of course this isn't limited to any type - but it does seem common for NT women (as others have already mentioned).

    That's the one thing. In fact, I expected a much more deep rooted uncomfort when I read the thread title. But since when is femininity about makeup and giggling and behaving like a teenage barbie doll????

    No being able to do the barbie thing just means you have arrived in the 21st century and have a few brain cells to put together. Nothing more and nothing less. That doesn't mean it is inherently wrong to be a barbie when one enjoys it. It means that it is ridiculous to buy into that social pressure that you have to be one. Who the heel defines what makes you feminine? You or some magazine article?

    Doing the barbie thing is a question of a few simple skills one can acquire. But if you don't feel like it - more power to you!

    Maybe I am priviledged here because I grew up in an environment where I was actually mocked when I prettied up. I remember sitting down at the breakfast table in some nice cloths or wearing some makeup or jewelry once in a while as a teenager and my ENTP mum would inevitable greet me in a mocking voice: "Oh, hello, madame!". Anything too conventionally feminine was sort of implicitely looked down upon. So I never even tried to pull off that stuff until my twenties and usually make a conscious decision every morning: do I go neat or comfortable today? Default modus is comfy cloths, glasses, no makeup. Meeting people or just-feeling-like-it modus is presentable cloths, contact lenses, slight makeup. But is is almost always a conscious decision.

    The same thing goes for mating behavior and playing the damsel in distress. I HATE that stuff and have to make a conscious decision every time whether I want to play that role or not.

    Most of my friends are guys but when I am with a group of females, I usually feel extremely uncomfortable. One on one with my INTJ friend is something else. We enjoy being able to let out the girl inside in each others company, often in a semi-serious semi-ironic manner (think Jane Austen movies and pink muffins)

    maybe you should get yourself some ungirly NT lady friends
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
    A herring's blog
    Johari / Nohari

  8. #68
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    Maybe I am priviledged here because I grew up in an environment where I was actually mocked when I prettied up. I remember sitting down at the breakfast table in some nice cloths or wearing some makeup or jewelry once in a while as a teenager and my ENTP mum would inevitable greet me in a mocking voice: "Oh, hello, madame!".
    I like your mum.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #69
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Mockery

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    Maybe I am priviledged here because I grew up in an environment where I was actually mocked when I prettied up. I remember sitting down at the breakfast table in some nice cloths or wearing some makeup or jewelry once in a while as a teenager and my ENTP mum would inevitable greet me in a mocking voice: "Oh, hello, madame!"
    Oh Red Herring, I can hear your mother mocking you now. I can hear her tone of voice. I can see the turn of her lip. And I can feel your emotional pain at being mocked by your very own mother.

    But what is heart-breaking is that you believe you were privileged to be mocked.

    And why not? You were emotionally dependent on your mother, and so your emotional survival depended on translating your own abuse into privilege.

    And what a heritage it has left you. Today you are a translator who speaks in the voice of others, and your own pain remains unspoken.

  10. #70
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Oh Red Herring, I can hear your mother mocking you now. I can hear her tone of voice. I can see the turn of her lip. And I can feel your emotional pain at being mocked by your very own mother.

    But what is heart-breaking is that you believe you were privileged to be mocked.

    And why not? You were emotionally dependent on your mother, and so your emotional survival depended on translating your own abuse into privilege.

    And what a heritage it has left you. Today you are a translator who speaks in the voice of others, and your own pain remains unspoken.
    Maybe I didn't phrase that correctly. The priviledge was growing up without many of the restrictions others had to endure and being raised by a strong independent woman who in many respects served and still serves as a role model. I never forgave her the mocking though and do know that - while she loves all of her kids dearly - she often has a hard time expressing that - or rather, her way of doing it is too rough and tumble for my taste. (It is probably the result of growing up as the youngest subling and constantly having to stand up against her older brothers). I only adressed this as an adult and she is now making a serious effort to find a common language. My world will never be hers but we have a fairly good relationship.

    As for translation, I very much speak in my own voice. And an interpreter does not speak in the voices of others - that is a very common misconception about this profession.

    Anyway, back on topic:
    The key is probably having a choice. You should be able to go either way and switch as often as you want. There is no need to settle for one or the other. I don't know how old you are or where you live, but chaces are you'll meet more likeminded people as you move forward, maybe into a bigger city, mix with folks from different faculties, collect experiences and expand your horizon. God knows I was relieved when I discovered that there was a world beyond my little home town, cozy as it was!
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
    A herring's blog
    Johari / Nohari

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