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  1. #181
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    Jim, I wonder if you could give us some insight into what you believe are the proper goals of forum moderation, and how pursuing these goals would translate into real world policy and procedure. For instance, I believe fairness is an important aspect of forum experience, but I also contend that a superficial fairness is inherently unfair (that is, applying particular rules without consideration of context, personal situation, et cetera); therefore, I believe that any ruling made by moderators should be accompanied by sufficient investigation of circumstances and include a corresponding written summary of justification, and such a summary should be referenced when making future moderation decisions for consistency.
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  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    Jim, I wonder if you could give us some insight into what you believe are the proper goals of forum moderation, and how pursuing these goals would translate into real world policy and procedure. For instance, I believe fairness is an important aspect of forum experience, but I also contend that a superficial fairness is inherently unfair (that is, applying particular rules without consideration of context, personal situation, et cetera); therefore, I believe that any ruling made by moderators should be accompanied by sufficient investigation of circumstances and include a corresponding written summary of justification, and such a summary should be referenced when making future moderation decisions for consistency.
    It isn't rocket science. Set up rules and a few levels of penalties. Enforce them fairly and in the cases of individual disagreements moderate.

    What you don't do is apply double standards, or as you have described it, exceptions. If you have enforced a fair system and you have been clear regarding the penalties then they have chosen to accept the penalty. Most often these are applied to make exceptions for friends and to allow the mods to run riot. That's primary school and a level of failing that belies deep rooted incompetence.

    As I said, P types have a fundamental failure; they do things under the guys that they 'might not' receive any penalty and then they cry and cry when it is incurred and people point at it. I don't have the time for such juvenile shit.

  3. #183
    Warflower Nijntje's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    As I said, P types have a fundamental failure; they do things under the guys guise that they 'might not' receive any penalty and then they cry and cry when it is incurred and people point at it. I don't have the time for such juvenile shit.
    I have to say, not all P's adhere to your policy of 'it wont happen to me, and if it does, i'll cry about it.' I posted knowing i would get infracted, but chose to anyway because i deemed the infraction worth the sheer joy my post would give me.

    Fair is fair, and if people break the rules then they deserve to meet the appropriate and clearly defined punishment for the break.

    Terrible things happen to good people every day.
    Consequentially, I am not one of the good people.
    I am one of the terrible things.
    .



    Conclusion: Dinosaurs


  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nijntje View Post
    I have to say, not all P's adhere to your policy of 'it wont happen to me, and if it does, i'll cry about it.' I posted knowing i would get infracted, but chose to anyway because i deemed the infraction worth the sheer joy my post would give me.

    Fair is fair, and if people break the rules then they deserve to meet the appropriate and clearly defined punishment for the break.
    Correct, no more and most certainly no less.

  5. #185
    Senior Member Gish's Avatar
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    A large marjoity of the administrative duties go on, are unseen, and happen completely within the defined rules, the small sliver that are even questionable are going to exist within any system, that's what happens when you have humans involved. You're not gonna free tibet by smearing your bullshit all over an internet forum, keep your obnoxious crusading to a single thread. Leave the golden-girls-marathon-watching non-contributing zero work to me.
    Whoops.

  6. #186
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    It isn't rocket science. Set up rules and a few levels of penalties. Enforce them fairly and in the cases of individual disagreements moderate.

    What you don't do is apply double standards, or as you have described it, exceptions. If you have enforced a fair system and you have been clear regarding the penalties then they have chosen to accept the penalty. Most often these are applied to make exceptions for friends and to allow the mods to run riot. That's primary school and a level of failing that belies deep rooted incompetence.

    As I said, P types have a fundamental failure; they do things under the guys that they 'might not' receive any penalty and then they cry and cry when it is incurred and people point at it. I don't have the time for such juvenile shit.

    Nowhere in my post did I mention that exceptions should be made. The essence of my post revolves around the notion that it can be exceedingly difficult to set up rules and present them in such a fashion so as to account for every possible scenario and achieve all goals perfectly. In governance, an ideal is imagined and rules are constructed to achieve that ideal with the greatest degree of accuracy. Rules are not enforceable for their own sake, but because they facilitate the achieving of that ideal. If a particular situation (one previously unimagined, or perhaps too narrow to be included in the written rules) occurs which apparently requires some application of the rules, it is the job of the moderators to apply the spirit of those rules to the situation and pass judgment fairly (not fairly with respect to the written rules, but fairly with respect to the spirit of them).

    I'm not sure what you mean by P types doing things under the guise that they 'might not' receive any penalty. I think the ultimate failure of anyone who is burdened by the weight of being 'over moderated' on this forum is oversimplification. The fact is that the rules are not clearly written out, and the moderators here do not write a summary of their judgments; but for those of us with heightened perception, it is clear that there is more to being accepted here that a rigid adherence to the FAQ section. One must be cognizant of his own standing within the community, and realize that how others perceive him (this is a direct reflection of the way he treats others) will influence greatly his freedom to sometimes deviate from the official restrictions -- this is a holistic approach. In general, I have yet to see anyone be given favorable treatment who in my opinion was unworthy of it. The one problem I can see with the forum FAQ section is that they neglect to mention that being a whiny, unlikable dickhead is frowned upon, and may result in continued harassment via the mod staff.


    If I were a moderator would I do things differently? Yes. I commend you for your adherence to your values and for your efforts toward making this community what you would consider to be a better place, but I encourage you to evaluate how effectively your methods are achieving your goals.



    Q: What do you think of my response to your response?
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  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    Q: What do you think of my response to your response?
    Those who are determined to be 'offended' will discover a provocation somewhere. We cannot possibly adjust enough to please the fanatics, and it is degrading to make the attempt.

    Regarding favorable treatment... here's one for you LINK . That took a fair bit of action by a few parties to see anything be done and of course, the mod team then spent about a week posting in her blog with messages of support, now we have the alternate view where blogs are locked instantly if the mods 'dislike' the individual. Fucking laughable moderation.

    As I've said here on multiple occasions. I don't really care for what the mods think or whether they hate me. There are a few people here who I am friends with; there are lots of people I am willing to be pleasant to and some I intensely dislike. I believe this post summed it up nicely...

    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    So what?

    In summary I believe you summed up the problem on the button.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    In general, I have yet to see anyone be given favorable treatment who in my opinion was unworthy of it.
    Hohoho!

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gish View Post
    QQ ragequit
    I missed this. This is not a question and take your own advice.


  9. #189
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    Default Test of Off Topic Posting

    For the past hour I have intentionally left the post from Gish #185 unreported; during that time 3 moderators/admins have ignored that is a completely off topic diatribe.

    Got Bias?

    ********** Tickertape! **********

    Fidelia in thread, invisible. 14.23
    Kasper in Modbox 15.04
    Patches came 15.18, Patches went, 15.22
    Patches in Modbox 15.24

    Wonder what the topic is

  10. #190
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    What happened to the avatar? I was enjoying it (although I suppose it's possible to have too much of a good thing.)

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