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  1. #41
    Luctor et emergo Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    ^^ All very interesting discussion, I had no idea you two knew so much about socionics/MBT theory
    It has been clearly demonstrated that Electric knows next to nothing about socionics, and has his feet, mind and views clearly rooted in MBTT.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lindaxo View Post
    If you're an ENTJ, your supervisor is the ISTP. according to socionics...
    Please refrain from using the four-letter type code to describe relationships in socionics. It only confuses people. If you have to use it, like so many amateur socionists do, you can differentiate between the MBTT type and the socionics 'counterpart' by converting the J or P into a lower case j or p e.g. the ENTJ would 'become' an ENTj. Many people claim they're the same thing, but if you study socionics, you eventually see how they're quite different. Some types bear resemblence e.g. the ESI and the ISFJ look similar. (The interesting thing is, their functional ordering is different. If it retained the functional ordering when being 'converted' to socionics, it would actually be an SEI (ISFp).) And it by no means means that you can't be a different type in each theory.

    Quote Originally Posted by 6sticks View Post
    You don't know anything about the MBTI.

    /mean ISTP
    a) who are you talking to?
    b) what does "/mean ISTP" mean?

  2. #42
    Member Electric's Avatar
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    Ezra I think you're probably a LIE in socionics. You should explain why you believe you're an estp and not entj in socionics.

    If you look at socionic's view on an ESTP's functions it's quite contradictory towards Jungian ENTJ.

    However, if you really want to end this discussion on a bad note. You can always reacuse me of not knowing my stuff.

  3. #43
    Member Electric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Well, didn't that backfire. That's not a description of an ESTP. That's a description of an SLE. One of things I don't agree with in socionics is the usage of the four-letter type code, which only aids fools like you to completely misinterpret socionics as an Eastern, communistic, cheap rip off of the more globally accepted and praised MBTT. Truth is, if you truly took the time to study the theory, I think you might actually develop not just an appreciation for it, but a preference.
    Oops thought you were comparing the ESTP and ENTJ there. The ESTP does actually use eight functions in MBTI. Perhaps you could be specific in what you mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    MBTT also condones this practice, evidently. Do you agree with that?
    Well, I said I wouldn't trust celebrity profiling. Not necessarily the theory behind the process.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Reinin and Gulenko are examples of socionists. Aushra Augustinavichiute used Jung's original functions and put her own (better, IMO) unique spin on them. It was unfortunate that MBTT came before socionics, because socionics is a far more viable and logical theory. There are the intertype relationships, which MBTT doesn't have (or at least originally didn't). These are the basis of socionics. A lot of people at the16types.info forum try to persuade me that there's no practical value in MBTT, and I search ruthlessly for evidence that there is. So, I get criticised by idiots like you for studying a perfectly acceptable and superior theory, while attempting to defend MBTT from individuals on that forum who see no use in the theory.
    I'm more of an Jungian theory advocate here. MBTI and Keirsey are just elaborations of the theory that precedes it.

  4. #44

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    ISTP lacks the ability to see the forest, only being able to see trees. Hence the reason why they tested as an "S." They also live in the present where you operate in the future and past.

    An ISTP will stand over you and annoy you because they do not see things getting immediately accomplished. They are prone to get stressed out and throw a fit if they see daily work piling up as well. They are a doer and need to see immediate results. The problem is that they often work harder and not smarter where an ENTJ will put in the time to exert minimal effort and have the maximum result. They don't notice your legwork. They are just focusing on the stuff piling up on your desk.

    An ENTJ should never be their administrative assistant or any role that takes care of their daily details. Instead you should aim for more of an advisory roll that helps them with the long range planning that they cannot seem to master. Be more project oriented too. An ENTJ has an organizational bird's eye view where they can make predictions years out. An ISTP can make predictions about 1 month or so out. ENTJ's put together systems that will be implemented in the future. Today an ISTP will wrestle with why they hired you because they aren't seeing that immediate ROI. Therefore they tend to micromanage the NT's. This is the major difference between you and your supervisor and also why they won't leave you alone.

    They will not know how much they NEED you until you get fed up with them and leave. You, the ENTJ were the one that steered the ship. They put the crew into action. Without you their ship will never sink but it just will stay docked never really going anywhere in the long term. They don't really look to the horizon, just the water.

    Hopefully this makes sense. With a doer and a planner you two would make an unstoppable force. My suggestion is to delegate your day to day responsibilities to another SP doer type and once he sees the stack of files get smaller he will smile and you will love life again. Then months out he will notice your systems and think you are amazing.

  5. #45
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    Why is an ENTJ even working with a istp?
    Man i dont even know any istp

  6. #46
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    I don't really remember ever having problems with ISTPs. I mean, if they're more competent than me in what we're doing, I'll let them do the stuff. It's ESTJs those I have serious problems with.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by istpunk View Post
    probably somehing I expect an ENTJ would try to do to get a rise out of me.

    I'd probably massage their buttocks just to get a get back at them, especially their women since their asses are steel.
    haha - i like to greet people by hitting them but i dont push it

    istps are fun but if an istp supervisor hates the entj.... well
    bruised and battered ENTJ sx/sp/so 8w9
    Tri-fix: 8w9 sx/sp - 3w4 sp/sx - 5w6 soc/sx
    http://leonardolestat.mypersonality.info

    (I'm secretly ENxP, but don't tell anyone)

    "Mother, I love you, I never meant to hit you over the head with that shovel."

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by AliceofMerion View Post
    ISTP lacks the ability to see the forest, only being able to see trees. Hence the reason why they tested as an "S." They also live in the present where you operate in the future and past.

    An ISTP will stand over you and annoy you because they do not see things getting immediately accomplished. They are prone to get stressed out and throw a fit if they see daily work piling up as well. They are a doer and need to see immediate results. The problem is that they often work harder and not smarter where an ENTJ will put in the time to exert minimal effort and have the maximum result. They don't notice your legwork. They are just focusing on the stuff piling up on your desk.

    An ENTJ should never be their administrative assistant or any role that takes care of their daily details. Instead you should aim for more of an advisory roll that helps them with the long range planning that they cannot seem to master. Be more project oriented too. An ENTJ has an organizational bird's eye view where they can make predictions years out. An ISTP can make predictions about 1 month or so out. ENTJ's put together systems that will be implemented in the future. Today an ISTP will wrestle with why they hired you because they aren't seeing that immediate ROI. Therefore they tend to micromanage the NT's. This is the major difference between you and your supervisor and also why they won't leave you alone.

    They will not know how much they NEED you until you get fed up with them and leave. You, the ENTJ were the one that steered the ship. They put the crew into action. Without you their ship will never sink but it just will stay docked never really going anywhere in the long term. They don't really look to the horizon, just the water.

    Hopefully this makes sense. With a doer and a planner you two would make an unstoppable force. My suggestion is to delegate your day to day responsibilities to another SP doer type and once he sees the stack of files get smaller he will smile and you will love life again. Then months out he will notice your systems and think you are amazing.
    Perfect plan.

    Only thing that could stop it from working: the ISTP taking it all too personal.

    PS: I like working with ISTP's, they are good people to work with. No bullshit, and some jokes on the side to lighten the tension
    bruised and battered ENTJ sx/sp/so 8w9
    Tri-fix: 8w9 sx/sp - 3w4 sp/sx - 5w6 soc/sx
    http://leonardolestat.mypersonality.info

    (I'm secretly ENxP, but don't tell anyone)

    "Mother, I love you, I never meant to hit you over the head with that shovel."

  9. #49
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    ISTp is the ENTj supervisor. I agree I find Entj's too easy to pick on. They are quite the "nerdy and clumsy" type imo.

  10. #50
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Hpw do I protect myself from ENTJ's?

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