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  1. #31
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    You're right that Ti has a drive to "understand" people and things and the world. So, I understand people, but I sometimes fail to understand "why". For instance, I understand that my ESTJ step-father likes to work 7 days a week, virtually all day. If he has time off from his business, he goes in the garage and works or finds something around the house that needs fixing - and works - like sweating in the sun, tired at the end of the day, etc. I understand that's how he is - but I fail to see "why" anyone would want to do that.

    My ESFP brother works 2 jobs and then parties until 3am in the morning, then goes to work the next day and can't even keep his eyes open cuz he's so tired from partying the night before. Then, the next night - he parties again and loses more sleep. And so by the end of the week, he gets sick and feels like crap. Instead of getting some rest while he is sick, he goes to more parties and gets more sick. I understand that he is this way, I just fail to see "why" anyone would continue doing that.

    Yes, I know. Ti is like the grinch that stole Christmas. Sue me.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  2. #32
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    So Ti tries to understand how. Ne would try to present why. Si and Fe would try to figure out when and where.

    I feel like we need to focus on Ne and Fe to be understood.

  3. #33
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecTcelfeR View Post
    So Ti tries to understand how. Ne would try to present why. Si and Fe would try to figure out when and where.

    I feel like we need to focus on Ne and Fe to be understood.
    What foxhole did you pull that theory out of? Just kidding. I don't know - I feel like Ti continues drill down until it gets to the bottom of something. It will find out why if it's determined enough.

    In actuality, the answer to my own questions of why can, in large part, be explained by MBTI. The ESTJ (Te-dom) has a brain that is wired to organize and fix his external environment so that order is restored. The ESFP (Se-dom) has a brain that is wired to constantly interact with, and enjoy, his external environment. So, he keeps engaging in that.

    My brain is wired to investigate things and discover things, learn things, and whatever the heck else Ti does. And they also don't understand me. I don't understand why they work too much and party too much and they don't understand why I think/analyze too much. So, it's sometimes hard to understand until we've actually been in another's shoes. I know that Se doms like to have fun all the time, but I can't really relate to it all that much.

    So, I would say that I feel misunderstood sometimes and I also misunderstand sometimes. But, I continue to try to grasp the misunderstandings so that they will happen with less frequency. I deeply want to understand.

    Do you understand?
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  4. #34
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    The reason why I'd say Ti isn't "why" per se is because it does not reference anything in it's understanding of what it's trying to decipher without the aid of either Si or Ne.

  5. #35
    morose bourgeoisie
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    I don't understand this thread.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I kinda think that the INTPs I know misunderstand people more often than they are misunderstood themselves...
    you're probably right

  7. #37
    Head Pigeon Mad Hatter's Avatar
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    Not so much misunderstood - it's more like I feel that I can only get across a fraction of what I wanted to say and there would still be so much more. The way my brain works and the way language does often just don't seem to be compatible.
    IN SERIO FATVITAS.

    -τὸ γὰρ γράμμα ἀποκτέννει, τὸ δὲ πνεῦμα ζῳοποιεῖ-

  8. #38
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    So, I would say that I feel misunderstood sometimes and I also misunderstand sometimes. But, I continue to try to grasp the misunderstandings so that they will happen with less frequency. I deeply want to understand.

    Do you understand?
    I think I do? There's kind of a sense of futility, in both of your most recent posts. But here's my question: If you so deeply want to understand a person, why don't you actively try and figure them out? Why not ask them directly why they do what they do?

    Of course, this question is biased towards my Te/Ne; my thought process is always "I want to understand this (Ne), so I'm going to MAKE myself understand it (Te)!!!" Like that Billy Collins quote, about beating a poem with a stick until it tells you what it means.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecTcelfeR View Post
    So Ti tries to understand how. Ne would try to present why. Si and Fe would try to figure out when and where.

    I feel like we need to focus on Ne and Fe to be understood.
    This makes a lot of sense. It explains why I have never cared much for how things work, so much as I care about why they work. Ne without Ti.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
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    want to ask me something? go for it!

  9. #39
    As Long As It Takes.... Redbone's Avatar
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    I think I do? There's kind of a sense of futility, in both of your most recent posts. But here's my question: If you so deeply want to understand a person, why don't you actively try and figure them out? Why not ask them directly why they do what they do?
    Sometimes we do. That's when Ne goes to work, asking questions, reshaping more questions based on the responses, and then taking leaps with the information presented. It's retrieving pieces to fit in the framework of understanding.

    But sometimes this comes at a cost. It can often seem like we're interrogating people...that often doesn't go over very well. Or maybe we can't get anywhere despite the answers the we get. Or it may take too much effort/interaction/expending energy to do so.

    I think INTPness means understanding in a personal sense. The kind of feeling you get when you see someone eating something you absolutely can't stand but they are tucking it in with relish? That.
    Not so much misunderstood - it's more like I feel that I can only get across a fraction of what I wanted to say and there would still be so much more. The way my brain works and the way language does often just don't seem to be compatible.
    Yes, yes, yes...this absolutely! Often retire in frustrated silence when this occurs. Called uncooperative at this point or whatever.

  10. #40
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbone View Post
    But sometimes this comes at a cost. It can often seem like we're interrogating people...that often doesn't go over very well. Or maybe we can't get anywhere despite the answers the we get. Or it may take too much effort/interaction/expending energy to do so.
    I'll bet the energy thing has a lot to do with it. Just because, with me and other extroverted Ne types I know, those first two things wouldn't really deter us from trying to get more information. But avoiding using too much of your energy -- that makes a lot of sense, especially with introverts. And ESPECIALLY with INTP type 5s.

    Yes, yes, yes...this absolutely! Often retire in frustrated silence when this occurs. Called uncooperative at this point or whatever.
    Having an INTP (type 5) dad who sometimes has his cranky moods, I have often been on the other side of this. It's good to know where that comes from.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

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