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  1. #1
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    Default Please help this xNFP sort out reactions to an INTP friend (with bennies)

    I'm interpreting my friend's behavior as disrespectful to me, and feel taken advantage of. From an INTP perspective, am I simply overreacting? The friend who I'm having the issue with appears to think so. In the interest of being fair-minded, I would like a bit of reality testing before I decide whether my emotions are warranted or not and conclude what boundaries to draw with this person.

    So, I'm female, and my INTP friend is male. We both have a pretty open-minded approach to sexual relationships. I tend to be pretty typically NF in that I give people the benefit of the doubt, am a good listener, can see the best in most people, and enjoy having emotionally close relationships. I recently got out of a long-term relationship in which my partner took advantage of these qualities in me, and I am still on the defensive about this, so it's hard for me to tell whether I'm actually being mistreated or simply triggered.

    I have attempted to cultivate a calm and rational approach to life, and am much less of a hothead than most of the other NFs I know. I very much enjoy and appreciate the NT thought process and creativity.

    My INTP and I met a few months ago when we both moved to the same city not knowing anyone there. We bonded intellectually and began spending lots of time together. He claims to not need attachment, yet he contacts me frequently. He also initiated a physical relationship, all the while insisting I was not his "type." It was with a mutual understanding that it was just casual sex and I was fine with that.

    He's moody, and a couple weeks ago was depressed and wanted me to spend the night with him on a work night. I did so quite happily, and when he asked me to tell me what I liked about him, I obliged (not for the first time). I got a couple hours of sleep, but I didn't feel it was that much of a sacrifice. He thanked me profusely for being there for him and for the intimacy and I felt pretty good about it.

    At his initiation, we spent nearly every night that week together. He texted me just to say I was awesome, told me I was the best sexual partner he'd had in the past six months, and introduced me to some close friends of his who were visiting. He mentioned that he was bored by women who were just hot and preferred our connection. He also repeatedly texted me on nights that I think he knew I was on a date. Having been a bit of a player when we met, he suddenly stopped mentioning other women and seemed to lose interest in dating them. I began to suspect he was growing attached to me and I started to reciprocate to some degree.

    Last night I asked him to go to a nightclub with me, and at the club he reverted to his old behavior with me, like I was his sister, talking about other women that were more his "type" physically than me, and ogling them. I felt disrespected. My value system is that if I'm out somewhere with a guy friend, whether or not we're sleeping together, I'm going to have some class and sensitivity and not do something that might hurt their ego, like point to some hunk on the dance floor and tell my more average-looking friend that the guy is hot. To me, that's just plain rude. It's even more uncalled for when you've just spent the last, oh, I don't know, nine or so nights having hot sex with the person. I don't care how casually I'm involved with them or how many other people I'm sleeping with, I just don't do that.

    This incident pretty much killed my desire to have sex with him, but not my general feelings of friendship, but I was particularly put out because I had bolstered him when he was down and given him ego boosts. I decided to use calm, assertive communication with him and tell him, and we talked about it rationally after we left the club.

    He said I wasn't being logical and that he wasn't willing to stop ogling, flirting with, or even going home with other women if I was there because we weren't in a relationship. I said that was just not how I roll, and that I had been there for him recently, and that I would appreciate reciprocation in terms of him telling me what he likes about me as I had done for him, and that this was what I needed after my shitty relationship.

    He kept trying to change the subject, tell me I had "issues," and say that it was hypocritical of me to ask such a thing of him since I'm dating someone else. He also said he didn't care if I went home with someone else if we were hanging out together. I wouldn't do that to any friend; again, I simply think it's rude unless we're going out with the intent to get laid.

    The main reason I was FWB with him was because I was starting to get too attached to the other guy, and he suggested we hook up casually to mitigate that. That was working pretty well for a while. However, the fact that he makes me feel like chopped liver is negating the benefits.

    He does not think my feelings about this are valid. I asked him how he would feel if I pointed out some guy I thought was hotter than him and he said he would not mind and doesn't take it personally.

    It's murky to me because my last relationship was so traumatizing. My ex undermined me in every possible way. I even have flashbacks to some of the stuff he said.

    Also, my INTP certainly has his hot buttons, as I have mine, and I would refrain from pushing them out of consideration. I'd simply appreciate the same from him. I am very sensitive about whether or not I'm still hot after a relationship in which I was rejected for the last two years of it. I'm not willing to bolster him if he's not willing to bolster me. I especially don't need to be undermined again.

    Is this really so unreasonable of me? It's not like I asked him for exclusivity or even to formally date.

  2. #2
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    He's not undermining you. What he's doing is reasserting non-relationship boundaries.

    From the sounds of it, you need to reexamine your feelings for him. In getting territorial, it sounds like you want more from him than an FWB. Ask yourself if you'd feel the same way if a female friend were to say "that girl's gorgeous".

  3. #3
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    You don't have "issues." He used you emotionally. Even though you guys are FWB, he expected you to be with him and be there for him every night for over a week for not only sex but emotional support for his depression...then he starts reminding you of women who are more physically his type than you? That's just fucking rude, even if you have an open relationship.

    I don't think you're being out of line at all, he sounds like a self-absorbed asshole who only cares about his own feelings.

  4. #4
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    I agree the guy's a wad but no one can really use you unless you allow it to happen.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    I agree the guy's a wad but no one can really use you unless you allow it to happen.
    Well, that would be my solution, to just never give him that much emotional investment again because apparently he'd rather take without giving. It's one thing to hang out, be on friendly terms, and occasionally have sex...but if he's demanding emotional energy from you in the form of comforting him every single night, and then turning around and not even having the decency to not ...basically insult you. I mean WTF. Of course he's free to see other women, but he doesn't have to actually say "oh she's hotter than you or more my type physically" after what you've done for him.

    He doesn't deserve that much emotional support because obviously he's not willing to give it back in return. He was happy to cross emotional boundaries, but only when it suited his needs, not yours.

    Jenaphor is right. He can only use you in the future if you allow him to.

  6. #6
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    I agree with Jenaphor that he seems to want to confirm those bounderies. Maybe things go too fast or he really just doesn't want them to go in that direction. In either case, going by what you agreed he is technically in his right to show an interest in other women while out in a bar with you. It wasn't a date, he was going out with a "friend". So night-out-with-a-friend rules apply. You can of course try to sit down and renegotiate those rules.

    On a different note: FWB, at least in my personal experience, is risky business and tends to lead to a dead end. It usually end with one person growing too attached and hurt (if there is a strong connection) or one or both getting bored and losing interest (if there isn't). Given that you come from a relationship where your self esteem and self respect have been repressed and that (from what you say) you were growing too fond of that other person you are or were dating under similar consitions (which is why you started seeing the INTP in the first place!) I wonder why you are doing this to yourself. There is a time and a place for FWB, but it is not right for everybody at every moment of their life. Considering your background story, I would say it isn't such a good idea for you right now since it demands a high degree of independence and self esteem to begin with rather than help recover from an emotionally abusive previous relationship.

    EDIT:
    1. Was it defined as an open relationship or as a friendship?

    2. Naturally he still owes you repect. Comparing your subjective attractiveness to that of other women in such a manner is definitely rude! If you feel used, step away.
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  7. #7
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    I'm going to have to agree with you Red Herring. The only time a FWB situation really worked for me is when I really did not like the guy as more than a friend. He could have said just about anything to me about anyone and I just would have been like "whatever" because I sincerely didn't want anything from him. We're still friends, in fact, that was a long time ago.

    FWB only works when you really don't need anything from that person, and frankly, OP, it seems like you're just hurting yourself with both of the guys you're seeing...the guy you're afraid of getting attached to, and your INTP friend.

    Maybe you should be alone for a while, have friends with no sex, and/or wait for someone who will actually care about you and treat you with respect.

  8. #8
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    Last night I asked him to go to a nightclub with me, and at the club he reverted to his old behavior with me, like I was his sister, talking about other women that were more his "type" physically than me, and ogling them.
    That's very disrespectful, imo. Funny thing is I can see myself doing that, but I would make sure you acknowledge that i was kidding. I like to tease, but some limits aren't supposed to be crossed.
    He said I wasn't being logical and that he wasn't willing to stop ogling, flirting with, or even going home with other women if I was there because we weren't in a relationship.
    He should have said that before going there, and give you some time to consider whether or not you still wanted to go. Seems like he was using you as the backup girl, which is not cool.
    I'm going to have some class and sensitivity and not do something that might hurt their ego, like point to some hunk on the dance floor and tell my more average-looking friend that the guy is hot.
    Seriously, you could do that. He might learn the lesson.

    Overall, the relationship sounds unhealthy and you should consider ending it.
    -----------------

    A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?'
    A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?'
    A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God... '


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  9. #9
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    I think guys like that only want what they can't have. It's cool to treat the girl who actually cares about them like shit, because only unattainable women are truly "attractive" to that sort of man.

    That's my theory.

    The less the OP would care, the more he would probably respect her. But as it stands, she's someone emotionally available who is a dog to be petted or kicked at will. Fuck that.

  10. #10
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Sounds like he figured out that he could get whatever he wanted/needed at the time from you so he started taking advantage of the ease of use. Welcome to human nature, sadly. Make it harder for him and you'll see a big change in his attitude.

    If I had a hot female friend that I could have sex with whenever I wanted to (but didn't meet the other requirements for me to want to be in a relationship with them), and still maintain the option to have sex with other people whenever I could, I would definitely try to keep that arrangement going. If I needed some kind of emotional reassurance one day, and that was the only place to get it, I would probably try to get it from them. If they wanted emotional reassurance from me, my response would depend on the circumstances. I would definitely try not to be a dick about it, and give them what they needed, but I would probably be very cautious about giving them the impression that I wanted more from them than I did (a monogamous relationship). Erring on the side of caution, I would probably not fulfill their emotional needs, keep maintaining the balancing act of getting sex and not being tied down, and leave them feeling bad while I look like an asshole (and reasonably, you could say that I was). It doesn't help being an NT who can't read people's emotions, because in this circumstance, I would expect you to be very emotionally attached to me easily, so I would go out of my way to make sure that I didn't let you fall in love with me only to be more significantly hurt later (still an asshole move, though, don't be fooled.)

    This is what happens in an unbalanced relationship. BTDT. Don't let him use you.

    Marmie's on the money.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

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