[INTP] I'm sorry

[jixmixfix]

But I have to say being an INTP must suck in today's world. Our SJ driven society completely contradicts what INTP's are all about. Look at Albert Einstein for example, who enjoyed studying physics for the sake of physics. His theory's proved to be groundbreaking for the time however our society has used it to destroy and bomb parts of the world for it's own selfish agenda.

 

[Robopop]

But I have to say being an INTP must suck in today's world. Our SJ driven society completely contradicts what INTP's are all about. Look at Albert Einstein for example, who enjoyed studying physics for the sake of physics. His theory's proved to be groundbreaking for the time however our society has used it to destroy and bomb parts of the world for it's own selfish agenda.

You know Einstien was deeply upset(I heard he cried) when he found out nuclear bombs were dropped in Hiroshima and Nakasaki.

 

[jixmixfix]

You know Einstien was deeply upset(I heard he cried) when he found out nuclear bombs were dropped in Hiroshima and Nakasaki.

I could imagine, I mean that crap sticks at the back of your mind thinking that you were involved in a creation that killed thousands.

 

[Rasofy]

My view is polemic, but I think these bombs avoided the need of an invasion by land, in order to force Japan's rendition, that would ultimately lead to more than a million deaths, including both sides. On the other hand, less civilians would have been killed.
The world isn't very INTP-friendly. OTOH, we are more likely to develop more peculiar abilities. We can't have everything, right?

 

[Edgar]

But I have to say being an INTP must suck in today's world. Our SJ driven society completely contradicts what INTP's are all about. Look at Albert Einstein for example, who enjoyed studying physics for the sake of physics. His theory's proved to be groundbreaking for the time however our society has used it to destroy and bomb parts of the world for it's own selfish agenda.

No matter what you do, some fucktards are going to use it for their own selfish agendas. Do you think Jesus would have supported the Spanish Inquisition, etc, etc?

And I don't think that INTPs necessarily have it worse than a lot of other types. If I had to guess I would say INFP guys have it worse than INTP guys, and alternatively, INTP girls have it worse than INFP girls. Bottom line, if you don't "fit in", chances are you're going to get your balls busted. I see a lot of SJs bitching about being shunned and ridiculed on MBTI forums, which tend to have disproportionate amounts of Ns.

 

[Edgar]

You know Einstien was deeply upset(I heard he cried) when he found out nuclear bombs were dropped in Hiroshima and Nakasaki.

I think the worst part to him was that he saw it coming. He encouraged FDR to develop the bomb because he was afraid that Nazis would develop it first, and he also thought highly of the Japanese people in general.

But like like Rasofy said, considering the circumstances, it was probably for the best.

 

[skylights]

I don't think that INTPs necessarily have it worse than a lot of other types.

+1

i'm not sure i understand the point of subjective experiential weighting anyway. quantifying human suffering is weird. there are happy people in africa living off less than 50 cents a day and there are miserable billionaires. human mind ain't linear.

plus, honestly, our society is SJ driven cause the rest of us don't give enough of a shit to deal with maintenance. if it ever gets that bad, i'm sure the other temperament groups will step in. so yeah, it sucks that someone may be using your purely-created something or other to deal with societal upkeep, but do you want to deal with societal upkeep? my guess is no. SJs gave einstein the ability to spend his life tinkering in astrophysics and whatnot, instead of worrying about how he was going to get running water or his daily mail.

theory's

 

[jixmixfix]

+1

i'm not sure i understand the point of subjective experiential weighting anyway. quantifying human suffering is weird. there are happy people in africa living off less than 50 cents a day and there are miserable billionaires. human mind ain't linear.

plus, honestly, our society is SJ driven cause the rest of us don't give enough of a shit to deal with maintenance. if it ever gets that bad, i'm sure the other temperament groups will step in. so yeah, it sucks that someone may be using your purely-created something or other to deal with societal upkeep, but do you want to deal with societal upkeep? my guess is no. SJs gave einstein the ability to spend his life tinkering in astrophysics and whatnot, instead of worrying about how he was going to get running water or his daily mail.

I think INTPs and INFPs generally have a harder time dealing with societal rules and structure than any other type, their primary motives contradict most peoples values and beliefs. Think of the stereotypical idea of "the American dream" and how badly fits into the INTPs core belief system.

 

[Fluffywolf]

I am happy to be in this day and age.

Suppose hypothetically that you are correct. Then that in itself is a reason for us to love being here now. If we lived in a perfect world, then you can truely pity us. For that would absolutely suck so so so much.

No, not living in a world that caters our every need is exactly what makes out brain go INTPish and does cool stuff.

 

[jixmixfix]

I am happy to be in this day and age.

Suppose hypothetically that you are correct. Then that in itself is a reason for us to love being here now. If we lived in a perfect world, then you can truely pity us. For that would absolutely suck so so so much.

No, not living in a world that caters our every need is exactly what makes out brain go INTPish and does cool stuff.

If you look at the statistics "NT's",are generally the least populated type with Sjs and SPs being at the top. It seems as though a strong "sensing" function is/was beneficial to the survival of our species. Maybe in a 100 years from now the "sensing" types will be the least popular and the NT's types would become the dominant personality type.

 

[Fluffywolf]

But someone had to invent the wheel though.

 

[skylights]

I think INTPs and INFPs generally have a harder time dealing with societal rules and structure than any other type, their primary motives contradict most peoples values and beliefs. Think of the stereotypical idea of "the American dream" and how badly fits into the INTPs core belief system.

perhaps so, but like fluffy said, to some extent that's what they need. not to get all "meilleur des mondes possibles" on you, i just mean that i think we kind of all choose what we want the most. my INTP dad has carved out a pretty good niche for himself. he's a scientist, plays music, and has a house in a private area on the water. sure he thinks republicans are idiots and hates superficiality and is pissed about the economy, but i dunno. i don't think he hates the world any more than a lot of people i know, nor is he any less well-equipped to deal with it. his logic and his creativity have gotten him far. just a couple nights ago he was describing to me how himself and some colleagues developed a new system which at first appeared to be faltering, but after a second infusion of money took off, was bought out by a large company, and he got a cash windfall out of that. seems like being an NTP in an SJ system worked out really well in that case. of the problems he does face, i think anxiety is way more of a problem for him than being INTP.

i think we're all trapped, to a certain extent, in this world of compromises and catch-22s. there's no guarantee even that SJs themselves like the system - my ESFJ mom is certainly no huge fan of it. she sees daily how people in need are passed over because someone at the top of the food chain is more interested in making a few hundred extra bucks a year than helping disabled children make it successfully through school. my ESTJ grandpa has recently really gotten into health issues and is frustrated by how poorly our healthcare system is set up and how stupid it is that you can get a burger for $1 but a salad costs you $7. i think we all see stuff like this, you know? but all of them are pretty happy, i think, because they've chosen lives that are well suited to them. dad uses science to help people. mom ensures those children don't continue to get overlooked. grandpa's begun lobbying.

happiness, it would seem to me, has less to do with the preferences you are born with and more to do with how you choose to make usage of them. an INTP trying to masquerade as an ISTJ is going to be an unhappy INTP. an INTP being an INTP is going to be a much more satisfied INTP.

 

[JocktheMotie]

Like any person, INTPs just need to learn how to leverage their natural talents into creating a life for themselves that works. Probably the most important thing a young INTP can learn is to trust his own mind and conclusions about things above all else, and not get caught up in trying to "fit in." Most people are stupid anyway, why would you even want to?

Similar to what Fluffywolf said, the very fact that our particular mindset is not the status quo is an advantage in itself.

 

[jixmixfix]

perhaps so, but like fluffy said, to some extent that's what they need. not to get all "meilleur des mondes possibles" on you, i just mean that i think we kind of all choose what we want the most. my INTP dad has carved out a pretty good niche for himself. he's a scientist, plays music, and has a house in a private area on the water. sure he thinks republicans are idiots and hates superficiality and is pissed about the economy, but i dunno. i don't think he hates the world any more than a lot of people i know, nor is he any less well-equipped to deal with it. his logic and his creativity have gotten him far. just a couple nights ago he was describing to me how himself and some colleagues developed a new system which at first appeared to be faltering, but after a second infusion of money took off, was bought out by a large company, and he got a cash windfall out of that. seems like being an NTP in an SJ system worked out really well in that case. of the problems he does face, i think anxiety is way more of a problem for him than being INTP.

i think we're all trapped, to a certain extent, in this world of compromises and catch-22s. there's no guarantee even that SJs themselves like the system - my ESFJ mom is certainly no huge fan of it.

happiness, it would seem to me, has less to do with the preferences you are born with and more to do with how you choose to make usage of them.

I understand your point of view, I think there are definite advantages to being an NT (particularly INTP in this case) over an SJ. My question is do the advantages really out weigh the disadvantages when it comes down to it?. I guess that just depends on the type of world you are living in. But my answer would be in this day and age that the advantages don't weigh out the disadvantages If statistics are showing SJs to be the dominant type there must be some kind of survival purpose for that type to be dominant.

 

[INTP]

Look at Albert Einstein for example, who enjoyed studying physics for the sake of physics.

why wouldnt this be possible today? i mean if you arent living in kenya or something..

 

[Beargryllz]

Think of the stereotypical idea of "the American dream" and how badly fits into the INTPs core belief system.

What key points do you find clashing with an INTPs core belief system?

 

[Xyk]

What key points do you find clashing with an INTPs core belief system?

I think of the American Dream like this: hard work > steady job > money > house in the 'burbs > total fulfillment.

INTPs, in my experience, don't consider material wealth to be any measure of fulfillment. We are also typically not keen on routine like you see so often in the suburbs with a steady job. I'm pretty lazy too. I think I'd rather experience things and learn without an end goal while being relatively poor instead.

 

[mrcockburn]

quit cryin. You INTPs have tertiary Si, which gives you SJ-honorable mention status.

Think of all the starving INFJ's who would cut off their own arm for some of that Si of yours. Thousands of people forget doctors' appointments every year.

 

[Scorquendo]

I think of the American Dream like this: hard work > steady job > money > house in the 'burbs > total fulfillment.

INTPs, in my experience, don't consider material wealth to be any measure of fulfillment.

I disagree. I speak for myself in that material wealth would make me feel more fulfilled since I can apply it to relevant interests and my work. A lot of my ideas are now closer to fruition with money (sadly true), and the consequential power that comes with it. It'd allow me to get away somewhere where I wouldn't want to live as opposed to being forced to live somewhere I'd hate. It'd allow me the respect that we usually don't get, but also let me use it to not have to chit-chat and have small talk. So money/power from an NT perspective would be golden, because we'd have a plethora of ideas on how to put it to good use, unlike the SPs.

quit cryin. You INTPs have tertiary Si, which gives you SJ-honorable mention status. Think of all the starving INFJ's who would cut off their own arm for some of that Si of yours. Thousands of people forget doctors' appointments every year.

Yeah, but that is "tertiary" Si. Our Ti/Ne, while great, is paired with that Si as an antecedent, so we are just as inclined to miss doctor's appts and socially "important" events just as much as you.

 

[Scorquendo]

It's amazing how brilliant and wonderful INTs (and NFs to a lesser extent, lol) can be and do things that are so unappreciated from a sensor perspective, but on the other hand, have the toughest time with simple social tasks, events, and interactions. I mean, literally, we are probably the most socially retarded and clumsy folk.

If you look at the statistics "NT's",are generally the least populated type with Sjs and SPs being at the top. It seems as though a strong "sensing" function is/was beneficial to the survival of our species. Maybe in a 100 years from now the "sensing" types will be the least popular and the NT's types would become the dominant personality type.

I would strongly disagree with that last part. It would probably take a LOT longer (like a millennium, at least) since modern civilization is leaning toward a very uncritical, incompetent, illiterate, conformist, id-driven, shamelessly self-promoting, and materialistic lifestyle. I'm thinking like a Terminator 2 Judgment Day future, lol, where things have to rebuilt and humanity can only place their trust on logic and reason is where the NT(maybe NFs) will one day reign supreme. No, I'm not one of those conspiracy theorists; I really don't care that much since I won't be there (unless cryogenics works out). There's more, but I don't feel like listing all the problems of the modern age. It seems everyone can be a celebrity now and since we live on the internet, the plethora/speed of communication & imagery that smashes down on us is geared toward such an Se culture: expect a lot of SPs and more SJs in the near future w/ gnat-like attention spans and a total lack of appreciation for all things abstract, curious, and peculiar...I always imagine when I am older how people will look back at our culture and think of it as "old-fashioned," which is kind of frightening. For the NTs, expect an even more loner lifestyle.

Me thinks the great time for NTs would probably Ancient Greece and possibly the Age of Enlightenment era. Nothing but the intellectual rock-star lifestyle: booze, women, hedonism, and free-flowing ideas = plus, you got paid and taken care of.

Sometimes it's quite frustrating being an "N" when most people misplace their time and interests in things that are pointless and irrelevant. But there's a hell of a lot more suckers followers, which sort of makes me even feel more unique as an individualist, even though it does have its obvious downsides. But what does it matter in the grand scheme of things, right?