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Thread: I'm sorry

  1. #11
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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  2. #12
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    I think INTPs and INFPs generally have a harder time dealing with societal rules and structure than any other type, their primary motives contradict most peoples values and beliefs. Think of the stereotypical idea of "the American dream" and how badly fits into the INTPs core belief system.
    perhaps so, but like fluffy said, to some extent that's what they need. not to get all "meilleur des mondes possibles" on you, i just mean that i think we kind of all choose what we want the most. my INTP dad has carved out a pretty good niche for himself. he's a scientist, plays music, and has a house in a private area on the water. sure he thinks republicans are idiots and hates superficiality and is pissed about the economy, but i dunno. i don't think he hates the world any more than a lot of people i know, nor is he any less well-equipped to deal with it. his logic and his creativity have gotten him far. just a couple nights ago he was describing to me how himself and some colleagues developed a new system which at first appeared to be faltering, but after a second infusion of money took off, was bought out by a large company, and he got a cash windfall out of that. seems like being an NTP in an SJ system worked out really well in that case. of the problems he does face, i think anxiety is way more of a problem for him than being INTP.

    i think we're all trapped, to a certain extent, in this world of compromises and catch-22s. there's no guarantee even that SJs themselves like the system - my ESFJ mom is certainly no huge fan of it. she sees daily how people in need are passed over because someone at the top of the food chain is more interested in making a few hundred extra bucks a year than helping disabled children make it successfully through school. my ESTJ grandpa has recently really gotten into health issues and is frustrated by how poorly our healthcare system is set up and how stupid it is that you can get a burger for $1 but a salad costs you $7. i think we all see stuff like this, you know? but all of them are pretty happy, i think, because they've chosen lives that are well suited to them. dad uses science to help people. mom ensures those children don't continue to get overlooked. grandpa's begun lobbying.

    happiness, it would seem to me, has less to do with the preferences you are born with and more to do with how you choose to make usage of them. an INTP trying to masquerade as an ISTJ is going to be an unhappy INTP. an INTP being an INTP is going to be a much more satisfied INTP.

  3. #13
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Like any person, INTPs just need to learn how to leverage their natural talents into creating a life for themselves that works. Probably the most important thing a young INTP can learn is to trust his own mind and conclusions about things above all else, and not get caught up in trying to "fit in." Most people are stupid anyway, why would you even want to?

    Similar to what Fluffywolf said, the very fact that our particular mindset is not the status quo is an advantage in itself.



  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    perhaps so, but like fluffy said, to some extent that's what they need. not to get all "meilleur des mondes possibles" on you, i just mean that i think we kind of all choose what we want the most. my INTP dad has carved out a pretty good niche for himself. he's a scientist, plays music, and has a house in a private area on the water. sure he thinks republicans are idiots and hates superficiality and is pissed about the economy, but i dunno. i don't think he hates the world any more than a lot of people i know, nor is he any less well-equipped to deal with it. his logic and his creativity have gotten him far. just a couple nights ago he was describing to me how himself and some colleagues developed a new system which at first appeared to be faltering, but after a second infusion of money took off, was bought out by a large company, and he got a cash windfall out of that. seems like being an NTP in an SJ system worked out really well in that case. of the problems he does face, i think anxiety is way more of a problem for him than being INTP.

    i think we're all trapped, to a certain extent, in this world of compromises and catch-22s. there's no guarantee even that SJs themselves like the system - my ESFJ mom is certainly no huge fan of it.

    happiness, it would seem to me, has less to do with the preferences you are born with and more to do with how you choose to make usage of them.
    I understand your point of view, I think there are definite advantages to being an NT (particularly INTP in this case) over an SJ. My question is do the advantages really out weigh the disadvantages when it comes down to it?. I guess that just depends on the type of world you are living in. But my answer would be in this day and age that the advantages don't weigh out the disadvantages If statistics are showing SJs to be the dominant type there must be some kind of survival purpose for that type to be dominant.

  5. #15
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    Look at Albert Einstein for example, who enjoyed studying physics for the sake of physics.
    why wouldnt this be possible today? i mean if you arent living in kenya or something..
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  6. #16
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    Think of the stereotypical idea of "the American dream" and how badly fits into the INTPs core belief system.
    What key points do you find clashing with an INTPs core belief system?

  7. #17
    Senior Member Xyk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    What key points do you find clashing with an INTPs core belief system?
    I think of the American Dream like this: hard work > steady job > money > house in the 'burbs > total fulfillment.

    INTPs, in my experience, don't consider material wealth to be any measure of fulfillment. We are also typically not keen on routine like you see so often in the suburbs with a steady job. I'm pretty lazy too. I think I'd rather experience things and learn without an end goal while being relatively poor instead.

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    Aquaria mrcockburn's Avatar
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    quit cryin. You INTPs have tertiary Si, which gives you SJ-honorable mention status.

    Think of all the starving INFJ's who would cut off their own arm for some of that Si of yours. Thousands of people forget doctors' appointments every year.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyk View Post
    I think of the American Dream like this: hard work > steady job > money > house in the 'burbs > total fulfillment.

    INTPs, in my experience, don't consider material wealth to be any measure of fulfillment.
    I disagree. I speak for myself in that material wealth would make me feel more fulfilled since I can apply it to relevant interests and my work. A lot of my ideas are now closer to fruition with money (sadly true), and the consequential power that comes with it. It'd allow me to get away somewhere where I wouldn't want to live as opposed to being forced to live somewhere I'd hate. It'd allow me the respect that we usually don't get, but also let me use it to not have to chit-chat and have small talk. So money/power from an NT perspective would be golden, because we'd have a plethora of ideas on how to put it to good use, unlike the SPs.

    Quote Originally Posted by mrcockburn View Post
    quit cryin. You INTPs have tertiary Si, which gives you SJ-honorable mention status. Think of all the starving INFJ's who would cut off their own arm for some of that Si of yours. Thousands of people forget doctors' appointments every year.
    Yeah, but that is "tertiary" Si. Our Ti/Ne, while great, is paired with that Si as an antecedent, so we are just as inclined to miss doctor's appts and socially "important" events just as much as you.

  10. #20
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    It's amazing how brilliant and wonderful INTs (and NFs to a lesser extent, lol) can be and do things that are so unappreciated from a sensor perspective, but on the other hand, have the toughest time with simple social tasks, events, and interactions. I mean, literally, we are probably the most socially retarded and clumsy folk.

    If you look at the statistics "NT's",are generally the least populated type with Sjs and SPs being at the top. It seems as though a strong "sensing" function is/was beneficial to the survival of our species. Maybe in a 100 years from now the "sensing" types will be the least popular and the NT's types would become the dominant personality type.
    I would strongly disagree with that last part. It would probably take a LOT longer (like a millennium, at least) since modern civilization is leaning toward a very uncritical, incompetent, illiterate, conformist, id-driven, shamelessly self-promoting, and materialistic lifestyle. I'm thinking like a Terminator 2 Judgment Day future, lol, where things have to rebuilt and humanity can only place their trust on logic and reason is where the NT(maybe NFs) will one day reign supreme. No, I'm not one of those conspiracy theorists; I really don't care that much since I won't be there (unless cryogenics works out). There's more, but I don't feel like listing all the problems of the modern age. It seems everyone can be a celebrity now and since we live on the internet, the plethora/speed of communication & imagery that smashes down on us is geared toward such an Se culture: expect a lot of SPs and more SJs in the near future w/ gnat-like attention spans and a total lack of appreciation for all things abstract, curious, and peculiar...I always imagine when I am older how people will look back at our culture and think of it as "old-fashioned," which is kind of frightening. For the NTs, expect an even more loner lifestyle.

    Me thinks the great time for NTs would probably Ancient Greece and possibly the Age of Enlightenment era. Nothing but the intellectual rock-star lifestyle: booze, women, hedonism, and free-flowing ideas = plus, you got paid and taken care of.

    Sometimes it's quite frustrating being an "N" when most people misplace their time and interests in things that are pointless and irrelevant. But there's a hell of a lot more suckers followers, which sort of makes me even feel more unique as an individualist, even though it does have its obvious downsides. But what does it matter in the grand scheme of things, right?

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