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  1. #81
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    what do you consider learning to manage Ne?

    wondering because i wonder how much it correlates to skilled usage of Ne. some crazy, crazy ENxPs are Ne-brilliant, but i wouldn't say they always manage themselves well. but they evidently manage their Ne well enough, because they're coming up with these extraordinary ideas.

    if you mean reigning it in to be more socially acceptable, it's kind of frustrating, sometimes, ha... i dunno if i've already mentioned it in this thread, but it's so funny, sometimes i'll be talking with my INTP brother, and i'll drop a couple paragraphs, and he'll be looking at me like i'm an idiot, but then i'll hit my conclusion and he'll be like, "whoa. how did you figure that out?" um weren't you listening?! lol. while he was trying to figure out where i was coming up with all that dumb crap, my mind was rearranging and reorganizing and creating new relationships and juxtapositions. i don't want to be obnoxious - but it really does work more easily when i have a place to exput my ideas - either verbally or onto paper. i used to get told off in school all the time by teachers for "doodling" when i was really half-doodling and half making notes...

    ah well. not to excuse the truly obnoxious Ne doms who piss even me off. but it's tricky sometimes.
    Managing Ne...hmmm...how to explain this. Perhaps focus it in a direction pertinent to the discussion, I guess. Of course this is only in serious discussions.

    No, socially acceptable has nothing to do with it. My preference is to be direct, anticipate and be positional. In order to be this way, I need to understand motivation and direction. No can do with an unfettered Ne-dom since it feels like they're hopping and skipping about.

    Take what just happened with entropie. I can't begin to describe how confused I am about it. What just happened? It went from civilised discussion to "fuck the sky is falling" in a couple of posts.

  2. #82
    Dependable Skeleton Engineer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Take what just happened with entropie. I can't begin to describe how confused I am about it. What just happened? It went from civilised discussion to "fuck the sky is falling" in a couple of posts.
    This, I feel, had more to do with the fact that it's very hard to translate languages accurately on one's smart phone. So while your phrasing made sense and was unoffensive, when run through GT or some similar program, it may very well have come out as offensive. Either way, an uphill battle.
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  3. #83
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Engineer View Post
    This, I feel, had more to do with the fact that it's very hard to translate languages accurately on one's smart phone. So while your phrasing made sense and was unoffensive, when run through GT or some similar program, it may very well have come out as offensive. Either way, an uphill battle.
    I thought it was an issue of communication due to cognitive differences. ENTPs are Fe users. Fe believes that there are certain obligations, like not mocking others. I think he perceived this thread to be putting down Fe and Ti users. I'm pretty sure entropie speaks english, so I don't think it was a language issue. I could be wrong, though. If he does use a translator, it's a very good one.
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  4. #84
    Dependable Skeleton Engineer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    I thought it was an issue of communication due to cognitive differences. ENTPs are Fe users. Fe believes that there are certain obligations, like not mocking others. I think he perceived this thread to be putting down Fe and Ti users. I'm pretty sure entropie speaks english, so I don't think it was a language issue. I could be wrong, though. If he does use a translator, it's a very good one.
    I'm not so sure, honestly. My roommate is an ENTP and he's very easy going, wouldn't take offense to this forum post at all, let alone as quickly as entropie seemed to. He'd argue the hell out you, hahah!
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  5. #85
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    I'm sincerely curious which posts mocked and/or insulted entropie. Anyone want to quote the comments that might have offended an Fe/Ti-er?

  6. #86
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Take what just happened with entropie. I can't begin to describe how confused I am about it. What just happened? It went from civilised discussion to "fuck the sky is falling" in a couple of posts.
    It may be an unusual sort of communication style here. I've caught myself doing it sometimes.... where I'll read something sort of nonsequentially and simultaneously and pick up on the general ideas of it, but sometimes it'll be just slightly off from what was said because I neglected a detail or two. Then sometimes I'll jump to interpretations about it automatically and almost unconsciously too, and this makes things even trickier. I'll only notice when I read back over months later and go "what in the world was I thinking there?"

  7. #87
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    what do you consider learning to manage Ne?

    wondering because i wonder how much it correlates to skilled usage of Ne. some crazy, crazy ENxPs are Ne-brilliant, but i wouldn't say they always manage themselves well. but they evidently manage their Ne well enough, because they're coming up with these extraordinary ideas.

    if you mean reigning it in to be more acceptable, it's kind of frustrating, sometimes, ha... i dunno if i've already mentioned it in this thread, but it's so funny, sometimes i'll be talking with my INTP brother, and i'll drop a couple paragraphs, and he'll be looking at me like i'm an idiot, but then i'll hit my conclusion and he'll be like, "whoa. how did you figure that out?" um weren't you listening?! lol. while he was trying to figure out where i was coming up with all that dumb crap, my mind was rearranging and reorganizing and creating new relationships and juxtapositions. i don't want to be obnoxious - but it really does work more easily when i have a place to exput my ideas - either verbally or onto paper. i used to get told off in school all the time by teachers for "doodling" when i was really half-doodling and half making notes...

    ah well. not to excuse the truly obnoxious Ne doms who piss even me off. but it's tricky sometimes. i'm sure this is true for the other functions too. but i wonder where the right balance is, between indulging your mind and conforming to restrictions like social appropriateness, efficiency of action, etc...
    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Managing Ne...hmmm...how to explain this. Perhaps focus it in a direction pertinent to the discussion, I guess. Of course this is only in serious discussions.

    No, socially acceptable has nothing to do with it. My preference is to be direct, anticipate and be positional. In order to be this way, I need to understand motivation and direction. No can do with an unfettered Ne-dom since it feels like they're hopping and skipping about.

    Take what just happened with entropie. I can't begin to describe how confused I am about it. What just happened? It went from civilised discussion to "fuck the sky is falling" in a couple of posts.
    This is very interesting. As an INTP, I find myself in the middle of these two very good points. I relate to skylights (ENFP) because I understand Ne enough to know how it works and to know that, indeed, it does supply me with a lot of really good ideas. And I don't want the "abilities" of Ne to be stripped from me. I want those things to be able to flourish. Please don't think I'm calling myself Einstein here, but what comes to mind is trying to throw Einstein in a closet and lock the door on him because he's too "out there" - he's unbridled. So, yeah, we can lock him away to spare ourselves from his outlandish ideas, but at the same time we also lose his genius and his ability to make great connections and his insight, etc.

    On the other hand, I also relate to Jenaphor because, like her, I'm a T-dom. So, in certain "serious situations", I want to deal "direct" with people. I don't want to jerk around, I don't want to be funny, I don't want to waste time. I want to get to the point and get to the heart of the matter. Quickly and efficiently. We can goof off later.

    I guess my conclusion is that telling an Ne-dom to harness their Ne would be like telling an ENTJ that he can't use Te anymore. He has to rely only on Ni/Se/Fi. Or telling an INTP that he can't use Ti. That'd be rough! As frustrating as unbridled Ne can be at times (I definitely agree with that, but it's probably true of all functions that go unchecked: Te, Ti included), it has to be allowed to flourish and to "do it's thing" or else we're essentially limiting its abilities.

    P.S. Bolded are the points I relate to from both sides.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


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  8. #88
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaLuminosity View Post
    It may be an unusual sort of communication style here. I've caught myself doing it sometimes.... where I'll read something sort of nonsequentially and simultaneously and pick up on the general ideas of it, but sometimes it'll be just slightly off from what was said because I neglected a detail or two. Then sometimes I'll jump to interpretations about it automatically and almost unconsciously too, and this makes things even trickier. I'll only notice when I read back over months later and go "what in the world was I thinking there?"
    ^ That's definitely an Ne thang. I see the ENFP's do the same thing, and some INFP's especially, when they first arrive here. Not so much with the INTP's.
    Leaping before really looking, means some times that ground ain't quite as stable as you thought.

    What I really meant to do was laugh uproariously at the op. LULZ, whut? I like INTJ, I just don't think there is likeness. If there is, it's deep down hidden in cavern some where, and I don't feel like having my heart ripped out trying to reach to it. Not today.
    Last edited by CrystalViolet; 05-24-2011 at 09:25 PM. Reason: Adding quote. Slow typing fingers
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  9. #89
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaLuminosity View Post
    It may be an unusual sort of communication style here. I've caught myself doing it sometimes.... where I'll read something sort of nonsequentially and simultaneously and pick up on the general ideas of it, but sometimes it'll be just slightly off from what was said because I neglected a detail or two. Then sometimes I'll jump to interpretations about it automatically and almost unconsciously too, and this makes things even trickier. I'll only notice when I read back over months later and go "what in the world was I thinking there?"
    I do this too, so maybe that was it. Now I know how men feel when women call them insensitive!

    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    I guess my conclusion is that telling an Ne-dom to harness their Ne would be like telling an ENTJ that he can't use Te anymore. He has to rely only on Ni/Se/Fi. Or telling an INTP that he can't use Ti. That'd be rough! As frustrating as unbridled Ne can be at times (I definitely agree with that, but it's probably true of all functions that go unchecked: Te, Ti included), it has to be allowed to flourish and to "do it's thing" or else we're essentially limiting its abilities.
    I'm forever hauling Te back, otherwise its tempting to interfere when something looks inefficient or sounds illogical when it's really none of my business.

  10. #90
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    I do this too, so maybe that was it. Now I know how men feel when women call them insensitive!

    I'm forever hauling Te back, otherwise its tempting to interfere when something looks inefficient or sounds illogical when it's really none of my business.
    This is true. Good point. I haul in Ti all the time. I see inefficiencies left and right and want to say something, but people don't want to hear it, so I have to "leave it unsaid". So, why not Ne too?!
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

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