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  1. #41
    He who laughs
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    I get on fine with 90% of people although I only get on 'well' with 1% of people. Believe it or not this 90% easily includes Slowriot. Regardless of this, if people raise a technical point that defies logic I reserve the right to allow my mind to explode.

    This especially includes occasions where we pretend that MBTI, a system derived from Jung's cognitive processes by Myers and Briggs is referred to as a system 'which has very little to do with' said cognitive processes.

    I'm not going to argue that 'in reality' most MBTI'd people could give two flying cockerels about cognitive processes, but that doesn't mean we should accept the 'lowest common denominator' when I'm discussing type with someone who has shared much of the same forum space with myself over the past 3 years.

    What I would recommend for you, however is that you do not get involved in a technical argument by making it an issue regarding one individual versus another. Nothing is served in any discussion if you are really going to be foolish enough to step into that spot. Especially as an interfering third party.

    In Summary

    a) Yes, what Slow just said blew my mind, but it's not personal.
    b) I have more respect for Mr. Riot than you know, but I found the technical details wanting.
    c) Mind your own.
    Thank you Jim, couldnt have said it better myself. I edited so my points might come out more clearly.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I can't say I blame him. it's not even really that I dislike INTPs (I think they're friggin geniuses actually), I just find them impossible to communicate with sometimes, in much the same way that I could see an INTJ having struggles with them. you see INTJs are all about what's the core issue? how do I solve the puzzle? what's the one piece of information with which I can move a mountain? while INTPs value more the technicalities of the project, and will argue those to you before you've even decided the direction you want to go in.
    I dont understand. What makes you say that?

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowriot View Post
    Thank you Jim, couldnt have said it better myself. I edited so my points might come out more clearly.
    Yes, this makes much more sense and I entirely agree. Tak tak tak!

    Some NTJs and NFPs give because they 'share styles' but it isn't a rule that they ever will.

    I think it's more to do with NFPs and NTJs having a shared way of viewing the external boundaries in their environment and the interaction of those Je (Te) that allows the translation of different perception processes than anything else.

    NFPs like exploring the Ni, if they can. But they also like exploring the Si... if they can. They also very much enjoy the freedom of Ne relations they get from INTPs... not so much with the Ti parent of ENTPs. I've seen a lot of NFPs crumble when they are told to think about things inside their headbox.

  4. #44
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowriot View Post
    I dont understand. What makes you say that?
    it's just when Te/Ni and Ti/Ne try to solve a problem, they do so in completely different order from completely different starting places. NFPs are often closer to the way NTJs do it because of Te. NFPs and NTPs can communicate concepts to each other better (I actually struggle with this a lot with my INTJ friend), but NFPs and NTJs will usually agree on "this is the problem. we need that information. the best solution is this. so the first step is this". it's a much more top down approach compared to NTPs who often take a more bottom up approach.
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    it's just when Te/Ni and Ti/Ne try to solve a problem, they do so in completely different order from completely different starting places. NFPs are often closer to the way NTJs do it because of Te. NFPs and NTPs can communicate concepts to each other better (I actually struggle with this a lot with my INTJ friend), but NFPs and NTJs will usually agree on "this is the problem. we need that information. the best solution is this. so the first step is this". it's a much more top down approach compared to NTPs who often take a more bottom up approach.
    I think this is more of an ENFP specific attribute. We were discussing on Ventrilo yesterday how ENFPs enjoy how INTJs 'state the logical steps to everything' and walk them through the way of dealing with systems that they loathe to do alone. It's more natural for an INTJ to be pleasant about using Te and an INTP to be pleasant about using Ti (although for either to flip orientation can be exhausting over time) and the ENFP really prefers T cognition support from Te, as Ti to ENFPs is akin to how the INTJ views Fe or the INTP views Se - something abhorrent they just don't want to think about.

    I'm quite enjoying this dalliance into PoLRs/Tricksters.

  6. #46
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    I think this is more of an ENFP specific attribute. We were discussing on Ventrilo yesterday how ENFPs enjoy how INTJs 'state the logical steps to everything' and walk them through the way of dealing with systems that they loathe to do alone. It's more natural for an INTJ to be pleasant about using Te and an INTP to be pleasant about using Ti (although for either to flip orientation can be exhausting over time) and the ENFP really prefers T cognition support from Te, as Ti to ENFPs is akin to how the INTJ views Fe or the INTP views Se - something abhorrent they just don't want to think about.

    I'm quite enjoying this dalliance into PoLRs/Tricksters.
    I think the same thing about Fe sometimes. it just makes me go "ugh, shut up and stop being so damn mushy. no one friggin cares"
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    it's just when Te/Ni and Ti/Ne try to solve a problem, they do so in completely different order from completely different starting places. NFPs are often closer to the way NTJs do it because of Te. NFPs and NTPs can communicate concepts to each other better (I actually struggle with this a lot with my INTJ friend), but NFPs and NTJs will usually agree on "this is the problem. we need that information. the best solution is this. so the first step is this". it's a much more top down approach compared to NTPs who often take a more bottom up approach.
    Okay, Im not sure I actually completely agree. But there may be some truth in it. I try to be more adaptable to the situation so thats why I dont totally agree with you. I dont have a default mode to do things in. But yes we may start different places, even if the end result is the same.

  8. #48
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I think the same thing about Fe sometimes. it just makes me go "ugh, shut up and stop being so damn mushy. no one friggin cares"
    Not to get too far off topic here, but this is what Fe users don't get about Fi users. If you say "stop being so mushy, nobody cares" - well, that's not true because nobody is more mushy inside than the Fi users. So, obviously you do care about the mushiness. So, why is it then so strange to see someone express said mushiness? I've gotten others perspectives on this, but I'd like to hear yours.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    Not to get too far off topic here, but this is what Fe users don't get about Fi users. If you say "stop being so mushy, nobody cares" - well, that's not true because nobody is more mushy inside than the Fi users. So, obviously you do care about the mushiness. So, why is it then so strange to see someone express said mushiness? I've gotten others perspectives on this, but I'd like to hear yours.
    I don't think any type is intrinsically more mushy than others. Merely Fe users wish to converge their ethical boundaries with one another; Fi users tend to prefer a 'standalone' approach; however, you will find Tertiary and Anima Fi users shun Fe massively, much like Tertiary and Anima Fe users shun Fi massively.

    Addendum

    Ji always causes emotions to flare regardless of type.
    Last edited by InvisibleJim; 05-24-2011 at 11:33 AM. Reason: added addendum

  10. #50
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    Not to get too far off topic here, but this is what Fe users don't get about Fi users. If you say "stop being so mushy, nobody cares" - well, that's not true because nobody is more mushy inside than the Fi users. So, obviously you do care about the mushiness. So, why is it then so strange to see someone express said mushiness? I've gotten others perspectives on this, but I'd like to hear yours.
    I have reached the same logical conclusion as you, which is why actually saying it out loud would be unfair of me(I mean, there's nothing really wrong with what they're doing), but it still bothers me on an irrational level. I only like very specific kinds of mushiness (a kind which there seems to be a ton of in anime for some reason)
    ENFP: We put the Fi in Fire
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