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Thread: INTJ sister.

  1. #21
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    I began writing about how I've dealt with my INTJ sis and whatnot but I must dash for a bit....as she's the one making me and standing behind me in a (ahh, she's ordering me to take that out and was even grabbing me in an attempt to delete what I'd wrote! ) threatening manner. She's upset but not at me! (though, now at me a bit! )

    Mind you, we are extremely close and I adore her as well as all my INTJ kinsmen. Even when they are bothersome! Perhaps, especially when so!

    So, I'm afraid I shall refrain for a while with my response, rainfall. =/ Hopefully others will continue to aid you as some already have.

  2. #22
    a white iris elfinchilde's Avatar
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    lol. DD, another protracted response. Conciseness, my dear.

    thanks for helping with the clarification.

    Yes. The use of parentheses denote a subpoint/digression within the point. i.e., cancel out the parentheses to read the main sentence.

    But the brother-in-law was obviously a sticking point for rainfall, hence there is a (secondary) need to address it. The first being the issue with his sister. Thus my subsequent lines outlining a conceivable approach to take towards conflict resolution, via determining his own needs (raise self awareness first, rather than reacting in an emotional haze).

    Agree with bananatrombone: rainfall, because all of us are just outsiders, we do not know the full complexity of your situation. Hence, all we're giving are stabs in the dark. So for yourself: it'd perhaps do you better if you were to pick pointers from here, rather than attempting wholesale application?

    The summary for me is this: The situation has already occured. Hence, rather than focusing on fault finding, it is perhaps more prudent to focus on conflict resolution?

    Let us know how it goes, as it goes.
    You gave me hyacinths first a year ago;
    They called me the hyacinth girl.
    Yet when we came back, late, from the Hyacinth garden,
    Your arms full, and your hair wet, I could not
    Speak, and my eyes failed, I was neither
    Living nor dead, and I knew nothing,
    Looking into the heart of light, the silence.

    --T.S Eliot, The Wasteland

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bananatrombones View Post
    An assumption seems to be developing hear that Rainfall is in someway at fault ["Not to say this is Rainfall's case, but they're lazing about at home..."]. Why say it if it's not the case?

    Shall we allow Rainfall to allude to any extenuating circumstance before writing him off as a schizotypal loser?

    Some behaviour is intolerable whatever the cause or however much the victim *deserves* it. Personally, I cannot think of one reason that indemnifies a bully.

    Wandering is of course correct, nothing worse than shooting in the dark. The issues may be complex but abusive bahaviour is inexcusable - irrespective of the complexities.
    I see this as a brainstorming exercise. The OP describes a situation, and the responses provide some possibilities for why the situation exists and/or how to address it.

    I mentioned the possibility that Rainfall's living at home might be a complicating factor. In a brainstorming exercise, everything's fair game. In turn, Rainfall is certainly welcome to reappear and provide more input, guidance, or instruction (rule out certain approaches, clarify his living situation, etc.).

    Hopefully there is no blanket condemnation here of either Rainfall or his sister. Sometimes one approach will grab people's attention and people will become focused on that in the thread. But again, it's Rainfall's thread. If it gets too far off-track, Rainfall can always reappear and steer it back in a more profitable direction by providing some clarification. [shrugs shoulders]

  4. #24
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elfinchilde View Post
    lol. DD, another protracted response. Conciseness, my dear.

    thanks for helping with the clarification.

    Yes. The use of parentheses denote a subpoint/digression within the point. i.e., cancel out the parentheses to read the main sentence.

    But the brother-in-law was obviously a sticking point for rainfall, hence there is a (secondary) need to address it. The first being the issue with his sister. Thus my subsequent lines outlining a conceivable approach to take towards conflict resolution, via determining his own needs (raise self awareness first, rather than reacting in an emotional haze)...
    I think the parents are a more important secondary issue than the brother-in-law. The brother is easily avoided but the parents and sister aren't.

  5. #25
    Highly Hollow Wandering's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elfinchilde View Post
    lol. DD, another protracted response. Conciseness, my dear.
    *snort* Conciseness and DD don't go together

    ***

    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    I see this as a brainstorming exercise. The OP describes a situation, and the responses provide some possibilities for why the situation exists and/or how to address it.

    I mentioned the possibility that Rainfall's living at home might be a complicating factor. In a brainstorming exercise, everything's fair game. In turn, Rainfall is certainly welcome to reappear and provide more input, guidance, or instruction (rule out certian approaches, clarify his living situation, etc.).
    Ne vs Ni But since Rainfall is NP, the brainstorming approach is probably perfectly appropriate.

  6. #26
    a white iris elfinchilde's Avatar
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    ^ Yeps. will definitely concur with that. edit: i mean to proteanmix's point about the parents.

    If i'm not mistaken, it's probably an entire mass of mess within rainfall now, such that all the trigger points seem to be flashing, and he may not be able to differentiate real cause from secondary causes (am speaking personally from own experience here. not sure if it applies tho? ). So yes, the first thing to do is to cool down, and to focus on identifying and prioritising the triggers.

    Then to delineate the boundaries of what is acceptable, what is not; what he can give, what he expects in return; what is non-negotiable.

    In conflict resolution, it is logic of emotions that apply. The protagonist must be able to first detach, so that he can see clear (esp for an intp; as we tend to get very emotionally vested: the implode til you explode scenario ). It's tough, but doable.
    You gave me hyacinths first a year ago;
    They called me the hyacinth girl.
    Yet when we came back, late, from the Hyacinth garden,
    Your arms full, and your hair wet, I could not
    Speak, and my eyes failed, I was neither
    Living nor dead, and I knew nothing,
    Looking into the heart of light, the silence.

    --T.S Eliot, The Wasteland

  7. #27
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    My basic thoughts.

    1. Sister's type: Definitely Te at work, and I would say either ENTJ, INTJ, or ESTJ. I don't feel comfortable going further than that.

    2. I can see why PM might have thought Elfie was blaming the husband (EC seemed to excuse the sister's behavior when she said, "[the sister] is likely feeling somewhat inadequate about herself (ESTJ as a husband--likely domineering..." etc). I actually picked up on that too... but I don't think EC meant it that way; ESTJs are definitely capable of what she described. Still, my opinion is that the sis is a world-class you-know-what and I wouldn't excuse her behavior regardless.

    3. EC certainly spent LESS time talking about the husband than Rainfall did in the OP. So I don't think EC focused on the husband, she probably gave more time proportionally to the sister than Rainfall did. And the "INxx" jibe was out of the blue and unnecessary in this particular situation, I don't think type bias had anything to do with EC's post here.

    4. FL offered some good boundary advice. And I concur: Rainfall should make sure he is not intruding on someone else's boundaries, which would have given tacit permission for his family to act so poorly. (Note: Their behavior is not his fault, it is THEIRS -- but if he respects their boundaries, then he has credibility to draw his own and defend them and they'll have no excuse.)

    5. The parents MIGHT tacitly be letting the sister run rampant on Rainfall. It is definitely one scenario -- they don't want to directly confront him about things they don't like, but they'll passive-aggressively condone the sister's rude behavior. Another excuse to get those boundaries figured out.

    6. Rainfall, your sister is your sister so it sucks to have to defend yourself against her. Regardless of her reasons and the things going on in her life, she's bad for you and ends up being abusive and detrimental to your mental/emotional health. i don't think you need to chew her out or attack her... but I think you are well within your rights to tell her as much -- that the way she relates to you has a negative impact on your well-being -- and you would like to keep formal distance there until things change. If she doesn't like it, then perhaps she'd be willing to regulate her behavior towards you a little better...? You can tell your parents as much too, so they know where you stand.

    7. They might disagree with you. Another reason to get your "own life" in place where you are not dependent on them. As long as you are dependent, you can't draw the boundaries you need. If you're independent, then you don't need them to react in any particular way; you can let them decide, and meanwhile stick to your own druthers.

    In any case, your sister right now sounds like a world-class bitch, whatever her type is (sorry, I guess I'm in non-flex mode recently -- I just can't excuse that sort of behavior at the moment). I hope she figures out what she wants out of life and what sort of relationship she really wants with you, and maybe starts negotiating a little more for something more beneficial to you both. If you need the space from her to keep your sanity, don't let her shortchange you. There's a time to flex and a time to firm up the boundaries.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #28
    Boring old fossil Night's Avatar
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    You humans are curious: both in custom and in play.

    I enjoy you.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    You humans are curious: both in custom and in play.

    I enjoy you.
    Dr. Doom?

  10. #30
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    You humans are curious: both in custom and in play.

    I enjoy you.
    Dad?

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