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Thread: Authority

  1. #1
    Junior Member sirprufrock's Avatar
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    Default Authority

    I have a question about INTP's and authority. I read, frequently, that INTP's tend to dismiss it, rebel against it, overturn it, and so on.

    As a potential INTP, I've noticed that I have this pattern where I deeply desire some source of authority, to be in contact with some individual or institution that has everything figured out, and so I gravitate towards religion, or philosophers, or even other such social establishments as the military, but never affirm or become part of them because of realizing how imperfect, flawed, or irrational they are. Such fictive scenarios as Good VS Evil exemplified in books like LOTR or Star Wars are extremely appealing, but only because the author is basically a god and has conferred unequivocal "rightness" to one side over the other.

    Can any INTP's relate, or do you all chafe at the notion of some absolutely correct being, institution, etc? We're assuming that the being IS right, as far as the system of the constructed world is concerned.

    Of course, entirely hypothetical, unless you're religious, I guess?
    "Fuck concepts. Don't be afraid to be confused. Try to remain permanently confused. Anything is possible. Stay open, forever, so open it hurts, and then open up some more, until the day you die, world without end, amen."

    - George Saunders

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    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirprufrock View Post
    I have a question about INTP's and authority. I read, frequently, that INTP's tend to dismiss it, rebel against it, overturn it, and so on.

    As a potential INTP, I've noticed that I have this pattern where I deeply desire some source of authority, to be in contact with some individual or institution that has everything figured out, and so I gravitate towards religion, or philosophers, or even other such social establishments as the military, but never affirm or become part of them because of realizing how imperfect, flawed, or irrational they are. Such fictive scenarios as Good VS Evil exemplified in books like LOTR or Star Wars are extremely appealing, but only because the author is basically a god and has conferred unequivocal "rightness" to one side over the other.

    Can any INTP's relate, or do you all chafe at the notion of some absolutely correct being, institution, etc? We're assuming that the being IS right, as far as the system of the constructed world is concerned.

    Of course, entirely hypothetical, unless you're religious, I guess?
    I'm not an INTP, but for what it's worth that does sound like an INTPs behaviour. Specifically, I'd associate it with a Ti-Si loop. Child Si has a tendancy to demand that every question has an answer, and if it is a neat, well packaged answer so much the better, because Ti will like it was well then. Of course, such things are rather hard to find, which can lead to a rather disatisfied difting between religions, philosophies and so on.
    Don't make whine out of sour grapes.

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    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    I've heard it mentioned on here somewhere that NTP's actually like (need) some structure, yet they want to be "outside" of the organization or at least on the fringes of it. While NTJ's on the other hand want to be integral parts of the organization (the pillars so to speak), but they like freedom, mobility and spotaneity within that organization.

    NTP's dislike organizations and try very much to avoid them ------------------------> but a highly structured organization helps them to be grounded and more effective
    NTJ's are fine with being a part of organizations --------------------------------------> but they want things to be loose and easy going within the organization (never at the expense of efficiency though).
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

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    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    ''Good'' and ''bad'' are all a matter of perspective.
    On moral matters, no one can point you a way that is intrinsically right.
    Some people are able to pick one of the thousands existent religions, decide that they are the real deal, and live a very pleasant life. I can't.

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    Senior Member ThinkingAboutIt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirprufrock View Post
    I have a question about INTP's and authority. I read, frequently, that INTP's tend to dismiss it, rebel against it, overturn it, and so on.

    As a potential INTP, I've noticed that I have this pattern where I deeply desire some source of authority, to be in contact with some individual or institution that has everything figured out, and so I gravitate towards religion, or philosophers, or even other such social establishments as the military, but never affirm or become part of them because of realizing how imperfect, flawed, or irrational they are. Such fictive scenarios as Good VS Evil exemplified in books like LOTR or Star Wars are extremely appealing, but only because the author is basically a god and has conferred unequivocal "rightness" to one side over the other.

    Can any INTP's relate, or do you all chafe at the notion of some absolutely correct being, institution, etc? We're assuming that the being IS right, as far as the system of the constructed world is concerned.

    Of course, entirely hypothetical, unless you're religious, I guess?
    No, it is not my nature to rebel against authority. It is my nature to rebel against things, issues, etc. that I do not agree with. As a teen, I defied everyone and anyone - no discrimination in any way. You could not make me do anything I did not choose to do. As an adult, it is better. As a Christian, it is better still, but I still have a major battle in this area of life, even with God's authority. It DOES help when I respect someone - or if they turn out to be usually right, which in turn creates respect, but like I said, it is a major battle.

    "to be in contact with some individual or institution that has everything figured out" ...humm, that might be the 'symptom' rather than the 'cause'. I would say that it is more that I do not like responsibility, accountability, or dealing with issues/problems, so having someone in authority or charge of things alleviates that problem for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    I'm not an INTP, but for what it's worth that does sound like an INTPs behaviour. Specifically, I'd associate it with a Ti-Si loop. Child Si has a tendancy to demand that every question has an answer, and if it is a neat, well packaged answer so much the better, because Ti will like it was well then. Of course, such things are rather hard to find, which can lead to a rather disatisfied difting between religions, philosophies and so on.
    If it is a neat, well packaged, CORRECT answer

    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    I've heard it mentioned on here somewhere that NTP's actually like (need) some structure, yet they want to be "outside" of the organization or at least on the fringes of it. While NTJ's on the other hand want to be integral parts of the organization (the pillars so to speak), but they like freedom, mobility and spotaneity within that organization.

    NTP's dislike organizations and try very much to avoid them ------------------------> but a highly structured organization helps them to be grounded and more effective
    NTJ's are fine with being a part of organizations --------------------------------------> but they want things to be loose and easy going within the organization (never at the expense of efficiency though).
    I don't want authority or responsibility, I want veto power.

    I hate that word - effective. It is a nemesis. Internally, I wish I were more effective. I am actually happier when I do something productive. Yet. Doing so means I have to work, and usually hard. That's the part I hate most. It takes a lot to motivate me to work hard at something or give it my all. I mean, real hard. Partly, I am lazy. Or, everything bores me. Yet there is this undefinable issue that I can't seem to put my finger on that is the underlying cause.

    As a side note, that George Saunders quote is about the dumbest thing I have ever read.
    Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sirprufrock View Post
    I have a question about INTP's and authority. I read, frequently, that INTP's tend to dismiss it, rebel against it, overturn it, and so on.

    As a potential INTP
    I hope you included some of these ideas on your application, to help with the decision-making process.

    Which branch did you apply to? Do you need a sponsor?

    (Don't forget to learn the INTP theme song. It'll make your acceptance far more likely.)


    Can any INTP's relate, or do you all chafe at the notion of some absolutely correct being, institution, etc? We're assuming that the being IS right, as far as the system of the constructed world is concerned.
    To be honest, I think it's a less-developed response to just have reactions against authority. That seems like a teenager thing, where you're not feeling like you are yet independent, and you feel the need to assert yourself against the system and establish who you are. All types undergo that process to some degree. Although I think INTP can become bitter/jaded by seeing how stupidly the world seems to work sometimes, and wants to just announce a lack of solidarity with it.

    But I think once the Self becomes established, equanimity becomes more dominant.

    Authority is just authority, it is what it is. All I care about now is whether its claims make any sense. If an authority puts forth reasonable ideas and/or can justify its actions and existence, then I have no issue with it. If its thinking is irrational, then I don't want to be under it... but as long as it's not directly interfering with my life, I kind of just ignore the irrationalities.

    I'm ruled by my mind, not by some need to always be in charge of everything.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    NTPs will respect an authority which appeals to their individuality.
    NTJs will respect an authority based on their competency.

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    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    I dont think that right and wrong are often associated with authority in the world as it is, even legitimate authorities are only as good as the individuals who constitute it and act in its stead.

    The world is and always will be plagued by the twin evils of the managerial revolution and the peter principle, cant see any way around that, so in most instances the people assuming authority will be doing so because there's more money and less responsibility involved or so they believe, not because they have a strong vocation, wish to enact precious principles or do the right thing.

    Although the degeneracy of a thing in fact does not invalidate it in principle, not entirely, its important that people stand for something because otherwise they'll fall for anything.

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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    NTPs will respect an authority which appeals to their individuality.
    NTJs will respect an authority based on their competency.
    I dunno if it's that cut and dried.

    I have a natural inclination to ignore incompetent authority (or at least dismiss them internally), and I certainly am no J.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThinkingAboutIt View Post
    If it is a neat, well packaged, CORRECT answer
    Sorry, I thought I had impleid that, though I suppose conmen are good at puttng together answers that are neat, well packaged bullshit.
    Don't make whine out of sour grapes.

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