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[MBTI General] ESFP and INTJ... Just not compatible?

DocRox27

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It seems to me that attraction between these two types could very well be destructive, yet the polar functions make attraction something difficult to avoid.

Maybe I'm crazy.
Here's and example of a potential conflict between the two:

ESFP desires physical (not necessarily sexual) affection, and a lack there of leads to spontaneous overwhelming anxiety in the blink of an eye. INTJ has trouble relating to such an intense emotion. In response, INTJ runs to hide... he is safer in his own world. This leads to even less physical contact, leading to more anxiety for the ESFP, scaring the INTJ away even more.

Each type tries to understand why the other is acting the way they do, but they just can't relate.

I would like to hear what people think about the compatibility of INTJ's and ESFP's.
Pro's and Con's.
 

King sns

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It seems to me that attraction between these two types could very well be destructive, yet the polar functions make attraction something difficult to avoid.

Maybe I'm crazy.
Here's and example of a potential conflict between the two:

ESFP desires physical (not necessarily sexual) affection, and a lack there of leads to spontaneous overwhelming anxiety in the blink of an eye. INTJ has trouble relating to such an intense emotion. In response, INTJ runs to hide... he is safer in his own world. This leads to even less physical contact, leading to more anxiety for the ESFP, scaring the INTJ away even more.

Each type tries to understand why the other is acting the way they do, but they just can't relate.

I would like to hear what people think about the compatibility of INTJ's and ESFP's.
Pro's and Con's.

Are you trying to date us?
In my experience, relations between INTJ's have been interesting.
I dated one, but he was unhealthy, and had a whole slew of issues. In the same breath, we got along well on a day to day basis. (There were just larger issues always brewing that had little to do with our personality types.) He was narcissistic, overly guarded, self centered, and low intelligence. Seems like his main goal in life was ego related self preservation. I didn't like that. I'm also fairly guarded and untrusting as well, which makes for a somewhat shallow relationship. (It's strange that one of the things that pushed us apart was the quality that we shared the most.)

I like that INTJ's always seem to either challenge my own POV, or can put it in a new light. I am likely to find a healthy INTJ funny and witty as they always come up with something different than I could have thought of. As an ESFP, humor is a must. I can relate to them on some levels, too. I am a fairly balanced ESFP. I understand men, I understand typology, I understand need for space.(Well, relatively well, anyways. :)) If I could find an equally balanced, intelligent, and reasonable INTJ, I would imagine that life could become very interesting and that things could work. I don't necessarily see strong stereotypical underdeveloped INTJ's and ESFP's getting along, though.

As you said, the ESFP would need too much attention and the INTJ would need too much space.
 

DocRox27

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Are you trying to date us?

Actually, I am dating on of you guys.

He was narcissistic, overly guarded, self centered, and low intelligence.

Yeah, I have a pretty hard shell, and she doesn't like it one bit. I don't want my problems to become hers, so I don't talk much about them. Then it ends up becoming her problem because she's frustrated that I won't open up to her (which I have been doing more of lately.)
 

King sns

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Actually, I am dating on of you guys.



Yeah, I have a pretty hard shell, and she doesn't like it one bit. I don't want my problems to become hers, so I don't talk much about them. Then it ends up becoming her problem because she's frustrated that I won't open up to her (which I have been doing more of lately.)

Well, in my case, the problem with guarded people is that I don't try to get them to open up about their problems at all. (Maybe in friendships, not at all in relationships.) I assume they have it all under control. I don't like people pestering me about my problems either. In a way, it makes for a relationship of two individuals who hang out together a lot, rather than a feeling of oneness and vulnerability. Maybe it's a good balance to have someone who wants to learn more and become more involved?
 

Thalassa

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What you just described in the OP can happen with ENFPs and INTJs, too.

:/
 

Little Linguist

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If I could just jump right in here...perhaps the problem lays more in a lack of understanding or respect than more of a lack of compatibility. If each one knew where the other were coming from, each person could break the cycle. They could 'take turns' looking out for each other's needs. I know that sounds really lame, but what I mean is: if the INTJ knows that the ESFP isn't doing it to be an insecure dumb ass, but has certain reasons, maybe he/she could respect it more. Then it wouldn't be seen as encroaching on personal space and trying to be dominant or overwhelming or whatever. And the ESFP could see that actually it's not that the INTJ doesn't feel or care, but they just don't express it the same way....That way, both know it's not them or some weird voo-doo thing, but there's some reason for it, and they can respond/act accordingly?
 

OrangeAppled

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This is not so much a pros-cons list as an observation of Ni-doms & Se-doms. I've known some Ni-doms who surround themselves with SPs. It almost seems like there's some weird compensation thing going on. Then there are Ni-doms who are immediately distrustful of Se-doms & rather indifferent towards ISPs. They attribute bad motive & suspect all kinds of unfounded things concerning the Se-doms. They avoid interacting with them as much as possible. I wonder what the difference is...different emotional motivations (enneagram), maybe?
 

Thalassa

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Yeah, that makes sense. If you can teach someone "that's just the way that INTJs are" instead of them taking it personally, they might be less inclined to exhibit anxious or clingy behavior, which just pushes INTJ away MOAR, lather, rinse, repeat, nightmares.

I think it's interesting that EFPs are often hypothetically paired with ITJs exactly because of this dynamic (the EFP being more "emotional" or wanting more attention, initiating too much for the ITJs liking, the ITJ pulling away in a manner that makes the EFP feel rejected...)
 

Little Linguist

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You know what I hate? People distrusting me when I'm the most honest, loyal person in the whole joint. HOW is that??? I wonder if it comes from that. And then at the end of the day, they find out I'm the only half-human out there. And they're shocked. DOH!

Sorry, still getting used to the new layout. That was supposed to be a response to Orange.
 

King sns

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This is not so much a pros-cons list as an observation of Ni-doms & Se-doms. I've known some Ni-doms who surround themselves with SPs. It almost seems like there's some weird compensation thing going on. Then there are Ni-doms who are immediately distrustful of Se-doms & rather indifferent towards ISPs. They attribute bad motive & suspect all kinds of unfounded things concerning the Se-doms. They avoid interacting with them as much as possible. I wonder what the difference is...different emotional motivations (enneagram), maybe?


:yes: This is very accurate to my own experience with Ni doms. Sometimes they are very distrustful to start but warm up over time, though.
 

Thalassa

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I think Ni doms can be mistrustful in general, INTJs more so than INFJs. It's known as the "Ni paranoia."
 

DocRox27

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If I could just jump right in here...perhaps the problem lays more in a lack of understanding or respect than more of a lack of compatibility. If each one knew where the other were coming from, each person could break the cycle. They could 'take turns' looking out for each other's needs. I know that sounds really lame, but what I mean is: if the INTJ knows that the ESFP isn't doing it to be an insecure dumb ass, but has certain reasons, maybe he/she could respect it more. Then it wouldn't be seen as encroaching on personal space and trying to be dominant or overwhelming or whatever. And the ESFP could see that actually it's not that the INTJ doesn't feel or care, but they just don't express it the same way....That way, both know it's not them or some weird voo-doo thing, but there's some reason for it, and they can respond/act accordingly?

This works in theory, but it's easier said than done. It doesn't eliminate the need for attention on the ESFP's part or the need for seclusion on the INTJ's part. The whole "taking turns" might work well for a schedule minded INTJ, but from my experience, if the ESFP has a sudden urge for attention from INTJ, the schedule must be broken or distress will follow. That's when the INTJ either sinks further into his/herself or grudgingly gives in to the ESFP's needs.

Although, sometimes giving in can be a good thing, as the INTJ can actually have a good time and get away from his complicated little world for a little while.

I do like the idea though. =]
 

OrangeAppled

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You know what I hate? People distrusting me when I'm the most honest, loyal person in the whole joint. HOW is that??? I wonder if it comes from that. And then at the end of the day, they find out I'm the only half-human out there. And they're shocked. DOH!

Sorry, still getting used to the new layout. That was supposed to be a response to Orange.

It's a similar thing with Si/Ne (either attracted like magnets or repelled as opposites), but Si-doms seem less paranoid than Ni-doms, IMO.

I think Ni doms can be mistrustful in general, INTJs more so than INFJs. It's known as the "Ni paranoia."

I won't disagree with that :D , but somehow it seems more pronounced when directed at Se-doms.

In the same way, Te-doms can admittedly rub me the wrong way. I have to work against an immediate bias I want to form....
 

Andy

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It seems to me that attraction between these two types could very well be destructive, yet the polar functions make attraction something difficult to avoid.

Maybe I'm crazy.
Here's and example of a potential conflict between the two:

ESFP desires physical (not necessarily sexual) affection, and a lack there of leads to spontaneous overwhelming anxiety in the blink of an eye. INTJ has trouble relating to such an intense emotion. In response, INTJ runs to hide... he is safer in his own world. This leads to even less physical contact, leading to more anxiety for the ESFP, scaring the INTJ away even more.

Each type tries to understand why the other is acting the way they do, but they just can't relate.

I would like to hear what people think about the compatibility of INTJ's and ESFP's.
Pro's and Con's.

It's the same basic problem as with any two types that have the same four concious functions in reverse order, each primarily lives in the zone the other usually surpresses, but can secretlky rather enjoy. While that's greate for getting someone to explore a side of themsleves they would normally ignore (which can lead to a more healthy mind) they are also in constant danger of overwhelming each other. A large potentially exists for such relationships to be rather up and down, but that's not to say that they can't work. My own partents are ESTP and INFJ, also such opposites.
 

DocRox27

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It's the same basic problem as with any two types that have the same four concious functions in reverse order, each primarily lives in the zone the other usually surpresses, but can secretlky rather enjoy. While that's greate for getting someone to explore a side of themsleves they would normally ignore (which can lead to a more healthy mind) they are also in constant danger of overwhelming each other. A large potentially exists for such relationships to be rather up and down, but that's not to say that they can't work. My own partents are ESTP and INFJ, also such opposites.

Oh I'm sure any two types with opposing functions would be the same way in different manners. It's really quite amazing when you sit and think about inverse functions in such a close relationship. I mean, it could be seen as a complimentary relationship, but it could also be seen as a conflicting relationship.

Forgive me for being blunt, but I took quite a few shots while I was preparing dinner... Are your parents still together?

Edit: Judging by your grammar/type I would say you might be slightly intoxicated as well? If not, I'm sorry. =P
 

King sns

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Oh I'm sure any two types with opposing functions would be the same way in different manners. It's really quite amazing when you sit and think about inverse functions in such a close relationship. I mean, it could be seen as a complimentary relationship, but it could also be seen as a conflicting relationship.

Forgive me for being blunt, but I took quite a few shots while I was preparing dinner... Are your parents still together?

Edit: Judging by your grammar/type I would say you might be slightly intoxicated as well? If not, I'm sorry. =P

Aha! :D Drunken posting. My favorite pasttime.
 

fragrance

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I would like to hear what people think about the compatibility of INTJ's and ESFP's.

Totally incompatible. All the ESFP I know: we can communicate on an acquaintance level, but that's about it.

The last party I attended an ESFP wanted me. But somehow it was just so boring. She was sexy and all that, but there was just no chemistry.
 

Thalassa

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Totally incompatible. All the ESFP I know: we can communicate on an acquaintance level, but that's about it.

The last party I attended an ESFP wanted me. But somehow it was just so boring. She was sexy and all that, but there was just no chemistry.

This makes me think of how I typically eventually feel about ISTJs, even ones who seem cute or sophisticated. One little letter change away from the INTJs who fascinate me, can magically lead me into a world of insane, soul-crushing boredom.
 

King sns

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This makes me think of how I typically eventually feel about ISTJs, even ones who seem cute or sophisticated. One little letter change away from the INTJs who fascinate me, can magically lead me into a world of insane, soul-crushing boredom.

Really? Everyone fascinates me to some extent. Especially those who are vastly different from myself. I imagine I could watch videos of people's boring, day to day lives all day long and never get bored. People's thought processes never cease to amaze me.
 

Thalassa

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Really? Everyone fascinates me to some extent. Especially those who are vastly different from myself.

Even if I'm initially attracted to an ISTJ (which I have been), I eventually become so bored by them and feel so disconnected from them mentally that I just have no interest what-so-ever. In fact, I've noticed on-line they don't fascinate me at all, and are boring right away, even if they're nice, because any physical pretense has been removed, as have offerings of wine, dinner, et al.

It might be partially due to the fact that my grandfather, who pretty much raised me as my father figure, was ISTJ. I don't know.

I'm not saying that I feel bored because of the difference between N/S...because that's not true. If that were true I wouldn't have been with an ESFJ for five years.

I think it's because we're total opposites. I don't know. I just don't want any of it, I don't care what kind of cologne they're wearing, no sir.
 
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