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  1. #261
    Senior Member BlueGray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    Oh God. You are probably a little like my ex boyfriend. He'd say things like, "it was really hard for my family growing up. My parents were starting their own businesses, we had to eat American Chop Suey a lot. We had to build the house. And buy the horses."

    Whatever bud.

    (Sounds like an upper middle class version of poor to me.)
    (I'm not really accusing you of saying you were poor, the "upper class attitude" is what made me think of it.
    It's interesting how negative "upper class" is. Situations like that are what most people see upper class as.

    Assuming I am upper class and not upper-middle, my experiences that feel most representative are the restaurant outings. There would be a large group of "successful" people in their 40s to 70s. There would typically be a few of their late 20s children and then my sister and I would be the youngest by 10-20 years. The general feeling from the people was one of respect. I would be this 10 year old kid having these "successful" people include me in conversation and treat me as an equal. I was taught that I am not inferior to anybody. My interactions with authority figures at school and otherwise are heavily based on this. I am an introvert but in such situations I become very outgoing, whereas most people my age seem to do the reverse.
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  2. #262
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    An old time friend of mine comes from a "noble" family (used to be, ofc, nobility isn't officially recognized anymore in italy). I admit I feel a bit embarassed when he asks me to play golf with him. Although I do enjoy his pool and vacation houses with large libraries.
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  3. #263
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    @OP: Silly simpletons. Once they back up the truck & load up, they'll be eating their words and never look back.

    My goals are simple too. To relish in "more than enough". To pay it forward to the people that have shared so much more than money with me. (i.e., I will take care of my parents someday.)

  4. #264
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueGray View Post
    It's interesting how negative "upper class" is. Situations like that are what most people see upper class as.

    Assuming I am upper class and not upper-middle, my experiences that feel most representative are the restaurant outings. There would be a large group of "successful" people in their 40s to 70s. There would typically be a few of their late 20s children and then my sister and I would be the youngest by 10-20 years. The general feeling from the people was one of respect. I would be this 10 year old kid having these "successful" people include me in conversation and treat me as an equal. I was taught that I am not inferior to anybody. My interactions with authority figures at school and otherwise are heavily based on this. I am an introvert but in such situations I become very outgoing, whereas most people my age seem to do the reverse.
    Nah, it's not negative at all, really. I think that my thoughts on people who were upper class (who didn't know they were upper class) was mostly just "don't take everything for granted." It sounds like you weren't that way. People can't help what they were born into, rich or poor. On a side note, I was never made to feel inferior to anybody, either, and didn't realize anything was "up" financially until I was a little older.
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  5. #265
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueGray View Post
    It's interesting how negative "upper class" is. Situations like that are what most people see upper class as.

    Assuming I am upper class and not upper-middle, my experiences that feel most representative are the restaurant outings. There would be a large group of "successful" people in their 40s to 70s. There would typically be a few of their late 20s children and then my sister and I would be the youngest by 10-20 years. The general feeling from the people was one of respect. I would be this 10 year old kid having these "successful" people include me in conversation and treat me as an equal. I was taught that I am not inferior to anybody. My interactions with authority figures at school and otherwise are heavily based on this. I am an introvert but in such situations I become very outgoing, whereas most people my age seem to do the reverse.
    Yeah, who else but the upper class would put their kid in a suit and treat him as "a little gentleman"?

    Congrats, from the sound of it, you won the class lottery. You are the envy of all middle class people here.

    Not the high-proles though, they don't care.
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  6. #266
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    Kk, I've been reading Class by Paul Fussel and I'd like to make an announcement to everyone that, in some ways, Edgar was right. I do see what he was getting at now that I am reading the book, and some of the stuff in it is also absolutely hilarious. A lot of the "high prole" stuff reminds me of the older people I grew up around in the South.

    On the other hand, some of it is just outdated, wrong, or stupid stereotypes. "The Blues" (high proles with as much money as a the middle class) don't have a book in their house? When I was growing up my house was covered in book shelves. I had a book shelf practically to the ceiling in my bedroom and my grandfather had two bookshelves. Hence, lit major, hello. Also, I'd just as easily name my cat after a literary figure as they say the upper middle class is wont to do, and I read as many mystery novels as the upper class are supposed to.

    Also, I disagree that blue collar people only drink behind curtains on Saturday night...that's just religious blue collar people. Blue collar people are equally as likely to have drinks in the back yard as it says white collar people do. Also, blue collar women know to go shopping in the city for nice clothes, et al. I think the book tries too hard to assert that middle class people are always more educated than high proles and that's simply just not the case at all.

    I mean the book is very entertaining, and I think the basic precepts are correct - the middle class are nervous, bland, well-behaved, and obsessed with going to the right school, and the high proles are less likely to be as self-conscious, are more comfortable in their own skin, et al - but yeah, it is way overgeneralized. It is steeped in stereotypes.

    But the stereotypes are hilarious. The "luxury" high prole bathrooms remind me of my mother, grandmother, and probably every older relative that I have.

  7. #267
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    In fact, I think I know what may have happened over the past course of thirty years: Gen X.

    Gen X was an incredibly sophisticated generation in terms of adults being shocked by their extensive vocabularies by their teen years, and the fact that they worshiped the working class, all whilst being intermingled with intellectualism, irony, and liberal politics.

    I think Gen X may be the primary reason why this book became so outdated about the state of the high proles vs. middles, but it still doesn't explain why my prole grandfather - a good two generations before Gen X - was so inclined to read. He just didn't read "high literature."

    Gen X was different than the punk generation in the 1970's although they both glorified the working class - Gen X did it in a more educated, intellectual manner while punk was just more like "fuck you people and your middle class pretense" pretty simply and openly.

    Hmmm.

    HOWEVER, it also doesn't explain away the concept of working class intellectual which existed before Fussell even wrote this book. Peguy made an excellent point in the class quiz thread in the article about Ian Curtis of Joy Division, etc.

    *predicts Edgar coming in here and saying "you are the exception that proves the rule"*

  8. #268
    The Eighth Colour Octarine's Avatar
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    The Punks were a subset of Gen X culture.
    I think you are making too many stereotypical generalisations and I'd need to see the evidence before agreeing with such generalisations.

  9. #269
    Oberon
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    It's impossible to discuss societal phenomena such as 'class' without generalizing.

  10. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Architectonic View Post
    The Punks were a subset of Gen X culture.
    I think you are making too many stereotypical generalisations and I'd need to see the evidence before agreeing with such generalisations.
    If you read this book you might understand why I said this.

    And no...punks were not a subset of Gen X culture...the original punk culture occurred when Gen X was no older than eight or nine years old, even on the early end of Gen X. Some Gen X-ers were little babies or not even born yet.

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