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  1. #151
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Why am I absolved from this, but not other people? Why is my money more clean? Somebody, somewhere, had to generate that wealth, and I have done essentially nothing to get it, except wait around, hands on lap.
    Your money isn't profiting off of paying people less than the value of their labor to you. When you put money in a savings account, you're actively denying yourself the use of that money in exchange for the interest paid to you. The interest is the consideration for the detriment incurred through the lack of access. Interest is set at a particular level for the most part, so it's nothing more than a standard rent agreement.

    Capital investments, on the other hand, only make money because at some point, you pay people less than their labor or commodities are worth to you, or you charge people more than costs (including salary paid to self) to oneself. Tolerance for this depends on information imbalances between parties, and it is through the exploitation of this imbalance that this practice is of dubious morality (don't believe me? Ask Adam Smith).

    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    We should establish a baseline for exploitation and ethics. Who exploits? Who is practicing business ethically? If one were to exploit, what would he or she have to do, if one were to be ethical in these matters, what would he or she have to do? Could you be both at the same time, or rhythmically? Or would you usually only fall definitely into one or the other?
    Exploit - use information or power imbalances to one's own advantage and another's disadvantage
    Ethical practices - fairness and open dealing with everyone a person does business with

    The two are generally mutually exclusive. Problem is that the game is rigged in favor of those who cheat. That's why you need heavy regulation to maintain a market with many actors.

  2. #152
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Quick sketch:
    All of those qualities are present to such an extent at all economic levels above an 'under-class' that defining class in such a way is essentially pointless.

  3. #153
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    All of those qualities are present to such an extent at all economic levels above an 'under-class' that defining class in such a way is essentially pointless.
    How did I know, even before I clicked on the thread, that you were going to respond that way? Oh right - because you've already decided what you think, like you always do, and immediately will dismiss any disagreement entirely, rather than discuss the points that were raised, or provide an alternative definition.

    It's OK, though - we can't have those evil thoughts infecting your brain. You might learn something, and that would be simply terrible.

  4. #154
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Capital investments, on the other hand, only make money because at some point, you pay people less than their labor or commodities are worth to you, or you charge people more than costs (including salary paid to self) to oneself. Tolerance for this depends on information imbalances between parties, and it is through the exploitation of this imbalance that this practice is of dubious morality (don't believe me? Ask Adam Smith).
    I think it's really incumbent on those who see inherent injustice in this brand of capitalism to start industrial or commercial ventures of their own, ventures that are explicitly not-for-profit and which exist solely for the purpose of returning fair value for labor. Failing that, the laborers themselves should organize into employee-owned companies and so provide labor market competition for the old-school capitalists. Doing so would help direct employees considerably, and would exert upward pressure on wages across the market.

  5. #155
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I think nobody on Earth will be born happy with the things he does / did. It's a problem I think every person has when he asks himself if he couldnt have done something differently and would have ended up somewhere differently what was better. I suffer from worries like that to a huge extent but my girlfriend has the ability to seize my thoughts and ease my mind. It's maybe a flaw in Ne-people of never really being happy with the own achievements and may they be the highest possible. What makes it worse for me is that I know I procrastinated a lot and could have easily really have done it better, but well... here I go again.

    I really still have to learn that I could just embrace life because it is good for me and I live a good life. Yet somehow, sometimes, one is too stupid to actually recognize what he has
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  6. #156
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    How did I know, even before I clicked on the thread, that you were going to respond that way? Oh right - because you've already decided what you think, like you always do, and immediately will dismiss any disagreement entirely, rather than discuss the points that were raised, or provide an alternative definition.

    It's OK, though - we can't have those evil thoughts infecting your brain. You might learn something, and that would be simply terrible.
    I've already provided an alternative definition; income. Its the only criteria that is objective (outside of a caste system) and its not so amorphous as to be practically worthless. There are some cultural traits more common in certain classes than others, but that affects the likelihood of upward and downward mobility, not the class someone is in.

    As for 'learning something', I already read everything you had posted in sociology textbooks, you haven't provided any new information or ideas to digest.

  7. #157
    Senior Member chachamaru's Avatar
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    The very rich can afford to give offense wherever they go.
    -Pride and Prejudice
    a cat is fine too

  8. #158
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chachamaru View Post
    The very rich can afford to give offense wherever they go.
    -Pride and Prejudice
    love that book, ingenious quote ! wow that left me speechless
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  9. #159
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by chachamaru View Post
    The very rich can afford to give offense wherever they go.
    -Pride and Prejudice
    Ironically, or perhaps intentionally, you've quoted for us the voice of Prejudice.

  10. #160
    Senior Member chachamaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Ironically, or perhaps intentionally, you've quoted for us the voice of Prejudice.
    Or to be sardonic. Both work.
    a cat is fine too

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