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  1. #141
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I'm sorry, I just extremely annoyed when certain people are being pseudo-intellectual. Especially when they're being pseudo-intellectual passive-aggressively at my expense.

    Of course, certain people are always pseudo-intellectual and have attempted to reduce human relationships to mere caricatures of what they really are because any kind of real emotional introspection frightens them.

    But I think you're right, Elfboy, and I think the more complex "class system" you named earlier in the thread was more descriptive than what we've currently been discussing.

    Unless new information comes to light. Still waiting.
    was that an apology or an accusation of being passive aggressive? (serious question) in any case, in regards to the second part of your post, you're probably right
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  2. #142
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    Neither.

    I wasn't talking about you in the first half, I was merely explaining my contention with the issue.

  3. #143
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    He or she is making money as he or she plays golf. That's pretty much what many of us have a problem with.
    This is true, but this is largely a result of a mechanism initiated by the golfer for the purposes of generating income, wealth creating wealth, for example. I remember once, I was driving down the interstate, and I remembered that, all this time, as I drove into the night, my meager assets were multiplying in some savings account. If I had millions, I would have been making a lot more money as I drove down that highway, but I don't, so I wasn't.

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    This is true, but this is largely a result of a mechanism initiated by the golfer for the purposes of generating income, wealth creating wealth, for example. I remember once, I was driving down the interstate, and I remembered that, all this time, as I drove into the night, my meager assets were multiplying in some savings account. If I had millions, I would have been making a lot more money as I drove down that highway, but I don't, so I wasn't.
    The difference being that by putting your money in a savings account you weren't exploiting other people.

  5. #145
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Neither.

    I wasn't talking about you in the first half, I was merely explaining my contention with the issue.
    my bad, your comment just really confused me at first
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  6. #146
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    The difference being that by putting your money in a savings account you weren't exploiting other people.
    Why am I absolved from this, but not other people? Why is my money more clean? Somebody, somewhere, had to generate that wealth, and I have done essentially nothing to get it, except wait around, hands on lap.

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Why am I absolved from this, but not other people? Why is my money more clean? Somebody, somewhere, had to generate that wealth, and I have done essentially nothing to get it, except wait around, hands on lap.
    Nobody's money is more clean...lolwut? It doesn't matter how much money a person makes, if they put it into savings, they aren't actively exploiting anyone. There are ways to make money without overtly exploiting people, and no I don't mean by being in one of the "helping professions" either. You can own a business and run it ethically.

  8. #148
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Nobody's money is more clean...lolwut? It doesn't matter how much money a person makes, if they put it into savings, they aren't actively exploiting anyone. There are ways to make money without overtly exploiting people, and no I don't mean by being in one of the "helping professions" either. You can own a business and run it ethically.
    We should establish a baseline for exploitation and ethics. Who exploits? Who is practicing business ethically? If one were to exploit, what would he or she have to do, if one were to be ethical in these matters, what would he or she have to do? Could you be both at the same time, or rhythmically? Or would you usually only fall definitely into one or the other?

  9. #149
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    And what constitutes a lower-class value system, a middle-class value system, and an upper-class value system?
    Quick sketch:

    1. Working class - hard work, "playing through the pain", unwillingness to take charity, "hustling" or having side ventures to make extra money, little use for non-practical education, respect for accepted authorities, traditionally solidarity, importance of religion, high standards of personal conduct, expectation of and forgiveness for failures, intolerance of perceived laziness, disdain for haughty or arrogant attitudes, focus on local affairs, low priority of global affairs

    2. Middle class - perceived ideal of work/leisure balance, pain is an annoyance to be medicated away, cutthroat competition with an expectation of taking care of vanquished opponents in some way, entrepreneurship, education the most important thing, authorities seen as a means to an end, individualism, diminished importance of religion, some measure of hedonism tolerated, as long as it doesn't get in the way of work, failure means diminished self-worth, intolerance of perceived inefficiency, disdain for ignorant or dismissive attitudes, focus on regional to global affairs

    3. Upper/capitalist class - focus on the "right kind" of work, pain is a reminder that you too are human, charity is expected of you, patronage of talent seen as a virtue, education of "the whole man" both intellectual and physical, taking one's place as an authority in society, individual is representative of a family, religion important as a preserve of family tradition, high standards of personal conduct, pleasure to be taken from traditional pastimes, ostracism arising from failure and unwillingness to correct oneself, intolerance for lack of refinement, disdain for flattering or selfish attitudes, local affairs are global affairs

  10. #150
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post


    Anyone in his right mind dislikes and despises greedy, self-important people who don't play well with others.
    Ambition for the sake of knowledge is an awe-inspiring thing, and it is commendable. So is making a lot of money by your own work.
    I love when people are really good at what they do, and I strive to be that myself.
    But when that tips over into capitalizing off of the work of others? No, that is *not* something good or natural.
    For most of our duration on this planet, that was not how things worked. It is just an abominable social construct devised during the last few thousand years.

    Call me a simpleton if you will. If I lacked enough heart to be the greedy bastard with sharp elbows and no care for others that lives in all of us (and that normal people fight), then perhaps I could be a greedy psychopath like most successful business people are.
    But no, I don't want to be that guy. I care for others, and I am most definitely a team player.
    Trust me, you guys are just a waste product of too much peace. In trying times your rampant individualism would not be tolerated, and you would be crucified.

    All in all, I'd like to be rich and I probably will be someday, because I work harder than anyone else. However. I probably need to remind you again, it is not being rich I despise.
    It is the method of obtaining said $ through the work of others that is truly despicable and wrong. This isn't Sparta, yet there are slaves.
    The only reason paid labor has it any better than slaves did is that the industry and farming nowadays is more effective, the slave owners remain the same bastards they always were.
    Haha
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

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