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  1. #131
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    Well, I assuredly must be middle class since we're the "liberal elite."

    That's why I don't buy into this theory. There would have to be more than three classes of people. There are very poor or working class people who value education. And you cannot call them middle class if they happen to be intellectual if they're so poor they have to work at minimum wage jobs.

    I want an explanation. I've been wanting an explanation for months.

  2. #132
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Well, I assuredly must be middle class since we're the "liberal elite."

    That's why I don't buy into this theory. There would have to be more than three classes of people. There are very poor or working class people who value education. And you cannot call them middle class if they happen to be intellectual if they're so poor they have to work at minimum wage jobs.

    I want an explanation. I've been wanting an explanation for months.
    I think class has a lot to do with self perception. the most important determinant of class to me is how high of a standard one holds one's self to. a manager making $25,000 a year who doesn't use profanity, has exceptional manners, is a good conversationalist, has good communication skills, has good hygiene, is a responsible provider and role model, is seeking a higher paying job and is doing something outside of work to further his education is pretty freakin high class in my book
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  3. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I think class has a lot to do with self perception. the most important determinant of class to me is how high of a standard one holds one's self to. a manager making $25,000 a year who doesn't use profanity, has exceptional manners, is a good conversationalist, has good communication skills, has good hygiene, is a responsible provider and role model, is seeking a higher paying job and is doing something outside of work to further his education is pretty freakin high class in my book
    Many working class people are just like that.

    That's why I think saying that people who are "white trash" are always going to be lower class no matter how much money they have is making "white trash" be about level of intelligence, interests, lack of intellectualism, and/or flashy behavior.

    I'd honestly also type Britney Spears as ESFP (and mentally ill) and Hulk Hogan as probably ESTP.

    So are we now equating being an Se dom with also being white trash?

    It boggles the mind.

  4. #134
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Many working class people are just like that.

    That's why I think saying that people who are "white trash" are always going to be lower class no matter how much money they have is making "white trash" be about level of intelligence, interests, lack of intellectualism, and/or flashy behavior.

    I'd honestly also type Britney Spears as ESFP (and mentally ill) and Hulk Hogan as probably ESTP.

    So are we now equating being an Se dom with also being white trash?

    It boggles the mind.
    I agree, class has mostly to do with mindset, clothes are only an indicator (but often a very good one). classy people value elegance, beauty and intelligence and thus will be more comfortable in clothes that look "classy". it's not so much that wearing nice clothes makes one classy as much as being classy propells one to wear clothes that they consider classy.
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  5. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I agree, class has mostly to do with mindset, clothes are only an indicator (but often a very good one). classy people value elegance, beauty and intelligence and thus will be more comfortable in clothes that look "classy". it's not so much that wearing nice clothes makes one classy as much as being classy propells one to wear clothes that they consider classy.
    Yes, class has to do with mindset. However, simply because a person acknowledges that economics are the driving motivator of the current class structure does not mean they are working class. I know academics who went to top-notch grad schools who were raised in upper-middle class homes who had freaking trust frunds who think that class is economically driven.

    Of course, someone with a very poor background will have a hard time handling being wealthy if they are not educated. I completely acquiesce to that fact. On the other hand a person could have been working class all of their lives but be very smart or well-read.

    It's just not as simple as "money" "education" and "high society" determine class. That's an overly simplistic view and undermines the reality of people's lives.

    That's one of the reasons I say "I don't do class." Class appears to be such a complex, intermingled thing in a democratic society where people have opportunities for education and potentially had parents who married from two different class backgrounds.

  6. #136
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Yes, class has to do with mindset. However, simply because a person acknowledges that economics are the driving motivator of the current class structure does not mean they are working class. I know academics who went to top-notch grad schools who were raised in upper-middle class homes who had freaking trust frunds who think that class is economically driven.

    Of course, someone with a very poor background will have a hard time handling being wealthy if they are not educated. I completely acquiesce to that fact. On the other hand a person could have been working class all of their lives but be very smart or well-read.

    It's just not as simple as "money" "education" and "high society" determine class. That's an overly simplistic view and undermines the reality of people's lives.

    That's one of the reasons I say "I don't do class." Class appears to be such a complex, intermingled thing in a democratic society where people have opportunities for education and potentially had parents who married from two different class backgrounds.
    I just do what I think is classy and say "screw everyone else's opinion" (but I realize this is less than optimum for the more agreeable individual who actually gives a damn about the opinions of others)
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  7. #137
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    With regards to the OP, it's called Anti-snobbery. These individuals have the opinion that anything which is 'high class' such as cars, houses, artwork, aesthetics or generally anything they dislike is down to wealth and that people should be brought down as low as they are. It is entirely based on individuals with a very limited worldview who 'want more' but don't want to do more and thus resent those who do. See the spam valley rhetoric and it is often mixed in for good measure with luddite delusions and entitlement issues.

  8. #138
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    With regards to the OP, it's called Anti-snobbery. These individuals have the opinion that anything which is 'high class' such as cars, houses, artwork, aesthetics or generally anything they dislike is down to wealth and that people should be brought down as low as they are. It is entirely based on individuals with a very limited worldview who 'want more' but don't want to do more and thus resent those who do. See the spam valley rhetoric and it is often mixed in for good measure with luddite delusions and entitlement issues.
    I think you've just summed up the whole thread in a few sentences
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  9. #139
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    My father is the type of person described in the OP.

    We don't get along.
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  10. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    I just do what I think is classy and say "screw everyone else's opinion" (but I realize this is less than optimum for the more agreeable individual who actually gives a damn about the opinions of others)
    I'm sorry, I just extremely annoyed when certain people are being pseudo-intellectual. Especially when they're being pseudo-intellectual passive-aggressively at my expense.

    Of course, certain people are always pseudo-intellectual and have attempted to reduce human relationships to mere caricatures of what they really are because any kind of real emotional introspection frightens them.

    But I think you're right, Elfboy, and I think the more complex "class system" you named earlier in the thread was more descriptive than what we've currently been discussing.

    Unless new information comes to light. Still waiting.

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