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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    And what, besides money, denotes class? If a person can afford a middle-class lifestyle they are middle-class in my book. Do you think someone has to have a white-collar job to be middle-class, even when they earn less than someone in construction? Do you think someone with a blue-collar job automatically works harder than someone working the same hours in a white-collar job?
    Oh no, I don't actually believe any of those things. Why don't you ask Edgar? He's the expert. Apparently people carry their class with them FOREVER, despite money or education, etc.

    I didn't get it either. However, those of us who equate class with money apparently bespeak a working class background, while those who are middle class are more concerned with education (?), and truly upper class people ...have debutante parties, hell I don't know.

  2. #92
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    Another point of contention I had is those of us who were exposed to both working and middle class lifestyles as a child, as well...I mean, since my great-aunt and great-uncle were into local politics in WV, and knew everybody, including the governor and had a picture of my second cousin sitting on JFKs lap.

  3. #93
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Well, first of all, blue-collar workers are not, by definition, middle class. Dearest Edgar pointed this out to me, that only working class people think money determines class status.

    At any rate, an acre of land out in the middle of nowhere in WV is extraordinarily cheap. My grandfather and my uncle also helped build the house we lived in. It was really nice actually. I may live out in the middle of nowhere again someday.

    There are houses you can buy in WV, even now, for like 30 or 40 thousand dollars.

    This view is totally fine with me. I'll be the milloinaire trailor trash any day. As long as I can travel and end with a nice IRA, I will gladly accept my lower class title! (Well, actually, since my group seems to be more concerned with education than money, maybe this definition made us middle class all along but just really poor. Who knows? Don't know, don't care! Just give me a car that runs . )
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
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    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

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  4. #94
    Senior Member bcubchgo's Avatar
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    Well this thread certainly exploded...
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  5. #95
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    We were keeping it warm for you. We're parasitic nice like that.

  6. #96
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcubchgo View Post
    Well this thread certainly exploded...
    I like this thread. I just want to vomit all my opinions about money, classes, and self limiting beliefs in one place. And then reword it again and again to make it look like I'm saying new and different things. Thank you for providing a nice area for this. A+.
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

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  7. #97
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    Anyone in his right mind dislikes and despises greedy, self-important people who don't play well with others.
    Ambition for the sake of knowledge is an awe-inspiring thing, and it is commendable. So is making a lot of money by your own work.
    I love when people are really good at what they do, and I strive to be that myself.
    But when that tips over into capitalizing off of the work of others? No, that is *not* something good or natural.
    For most of our duration on this planet, that was not how things worked. It is just an abominable social construct devised during the last few thousand years.

    Call me a simpleton if you will. If I lacked enough heart to be the greedy bastard with sharp elbows and no care for others that lives in all of us (and that normal people fight), then perhaps I could be a greedy psychopath like most successful business people are.
    But no, I don't want to be that guy. I care for others, and I am most definitely a team player.
    Trust me, you guys are just a waste product of too much peace. In trying times your rampant individualism would not be tolerated, and you would be crucified.

    All in all, I'd like to be rich and I probably will be someday, because I work harder than anyone else. However. I probably need to remind you again, it is not being rich I despise.
    It is the method of obtaining said $ through the work of others that is truly despicable and wrong. This isn't Sparta, yet there are slaves.
    The only reason paid labor has it any better than slaves did is that the industry and farming nowadays is more effective, the slave owners remain the same bastards they always were.

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  8. #98
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    What is the point? Some back and forth nonsense about parasitism? What the fuck does that even mean? Every single human is living at the expense of countless living beings, but only a dedicated golfer will play golf when he or she could be making more dollars.
    He or she is making money as he or she plays golf. That's pretty much what many of us have a problem with.

  9. #99
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    And what, besides money, denotes class? If a person can afford a middle-class lifestyle they are middle-class in my book. Do you think someone has to have a white-collar job to be middle-class, even when they earn less than someone in construction? Do you think someone with a blue-collar job automatically works harder than someone working the same hours in a white-collar job?
    Working class - you rent your labor to the owner of a means of production to secure the necessities of survival, plus whatever bonuses you can scrounge up. Both blue collar and white collar entry-level and middle-management types fall within this class (the ugly truth that we don't like to face)

    Middle class - you own the means of your own production, but have to sell what you produce to secure the necessities of survival, either to a company or to customers/clients. Small/medium business owners, professionals like doctors, lawyers, architects, etc. fall within this class

    Upper/capitalist class - you own a means of production, and profit off the labor of others by charging rent for the use of your means of production. As long as your means of production continues to run, you have to do nothing to secure the necessities of survival.

    If you can stop working tomorrow, and never have to work again, you're in the upper/capitalist class. If you can stop working tomorrow, and take an extended break, and come back to work with little impact on your job status, you're middle class. If you can't stop working tomorrow, lest you starve in a few days/weeks or take a huge pay cut, you're working class.

  10. #100
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    First of all, I guess we better all stop speaking English. That's dangerous collective behavior, and expecting people to speak English when talking to me while in the English-speaking world is parasitic. Better to make up our own languages.

    What about expecting people to act for mutual benefit?
    expecting people to act for mutual benefit: no, at least not on a legal level
    expecting people to act without hurting others in the process: yes
    the fact is that most forms of making money involve some level of win-win for both parties. if not immediately than eventually.
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