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  1. #11
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    We can always learn more. Why does it always have to be all or none? Can't it just be more? Can't we want more and more? Why be complacent? Why are people unnerved by power? It takes power and malice together to bring the kind of despair you're obviously suffering from. Hate the hate, not the knowledge.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Xyk's Avatar
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    Nature is pretty sloppy. Evolution is a really imperfect process, and is never complete because the environment keeps changing. I mean there used to be sooo many more species, but because nature isn't perfect, they died out. Another example: back problems caused by bipedal posture. We can't even walk on two legs all the time.

    So that's why we have the capability to know so many things. Nature is pretty sloppy. It'll correct itself in a while.

  3. #13
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    I mean there used to be sooo many more species, but because nature isn't perfect, they died out.
    Everything is in a perpetual change, it's the key to life.

    I don't find it sloppy.

    To me it's the opposite, the closest representation of our abstract concept of perfection.

  4. #14
    Member MiriMiriAru's Avatar
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    Well, it's not about sloppiness. Nature, for me, encompasses all of existence, so really, that nature allows* humanity the ability to potentially destroy the earth, is in the grand scheme of things, utterly insignificant. The death of the earth, or all life on earth, or simlpy the human race will not have an repurcussions on anything beyond the earth.

    *I have a problem with this, since it appears to attribute intent to nature, which doesn't make alot of sense.

  5. #15
    Sniffles
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    Is nature a mystery or a problem?

  6. #16
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    I have a problem with this, since it appears to attribute intent to nature, which doesn't make alot of sense.
    Well yes, that's kind of the point.

    Nature seems so carefully calculated ...why is that? Should an "intent" variable be taken into consideration?

  7. #17
    Senior Member Fan.of.Devin's Avatar
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  8. #18
    Member MiriMiriAru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guesswho View Post
    Well yes, that's kind of the point.

    Nature seems so carefully calculated ...why is that? Should an "intent" variable be taken into consideration?
    Hmm... can you provide some examples that suggest to you careful calculation? The universe seems to me to be completely random, with any impression of order due to our inability to perceive it on the necessarily vast timescale.

  9. #19
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zombie Jesus View Post
    Hmm... can you provide some examples that suggest to you careful calculation? The universe seems to me to be completely random, with any impression of order due to our inability to perceive it on the necessarily vast timescale.
    wtf
    in physics?!

    Why are the constants the way they are? (considering that if you change them, life as we know it can't form)

    There's a theory suggesting that there are a great number of universes, and we just happen to live in one with the right values. Otherwise, I can't get it how can nature create itself the right way.

  10. #20
    Member MiriMiriAru's Avatar
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    Physics is a little too fundamental for what we are discussing. I mean, the universe as perceived by the average person is random for all intents and purposes. Orbits degrades, planets and moons collide, star distabilise and collapse and explode, or slowly burn out, comets fly into other space borne objects, asteroids crash into planets... There are most definitely constants acting upon these things, but they are outside the experience of the average person. Paradoxically, because several of these things occur over such a long time, there is an impression of permanence and order.

    To put this on a small scale, if I roll a can down some stairs, its action in falling will be random, and no physical constants would be violated.

    I still cannot see any intent in this. Things just happened and happened and happened and so on, until here we are. There are also theories that laws of physics were not as they are now, or as rigid, early in life of the universe. So it would seem that the constants are not entirely constant over time.
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