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  1. #51
    Senior Member Priam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duke of York View Post
    Impossible. That is a little unsettling, but it might very well be true. It would be nice if I had absolute control over such things, but I know that I don't. However, if you simply avoid the person you think you might be fallingin love with, and don't see the person for a long time, wouldn't your condition go away?
    Not necessarily. Infatuation is rather more about the idea of a person, not the reality. Many people stay quite obsessed regardless of the partner's presence.
    "The subject chooses to sit in shadow and search for wisdom by reflecting upon his trial. The problem is not that he is cold and wet, but that cold and wet seems problematic, so he embraces those hardships in order to best them."

  2. #52
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duke of York View Post
    Time out: I looked up "rationalist," and discovered I am not a true one, but closer to your description of the "empiricism tempered by reasoning," given a certain definition of "tempered by reasoning."
    I had written a long post on this that disappeared (argh)...I don't want to fill this thread with posts about Rationalism vs. Empiricism or whatever else might come up, so shall we take the the discussion to a new thread?
    Oh, and I should cover the love part on this thread: As I said earlier, I am seeking insight from others about their logic and why they seek love. I am not declaring you all irrational, but I am trying to find out why you subject yourselves to an irrational state. And I did not look for a rational justification to avoid the experience, it is just there, and I want to know what way the rest of you have found around it. *sigh*
    Now, how about that new thread? Your call.
    I was merely commenting on what I perceived as disturbing thoughts. Valuing reason above experience proves to be unhealthy. But the reality is that falling in love is almost never a choice. It is an unconscious process. In fact, those who look for love find it very difficult to fall in love. As Mr. Twig on South Park said, "We can't choose who we fall in love with. If we could it would be a whole lot easier, but it would be a lot less magical."
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  3. #53
    Senior Member TheLastMohican's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    I was merely commenting on what I perceived as disturbing thoughts. Valuing reason above experience proves to be unhealthy. But the reality is that falling in love is almost never a choice. It is an unconscious process. In fact, those who look for love find it very difficult to fall in love. As Mr. Twig on South Park said, "We can't choose who we fall in love with. If we could it would be a whole lot easier, but it would be a lot less magical."
    It is hard to define "valuing" reason or experience. Experience can mislead you, since it is not representative. Reason, as long as it is correctly applied, is foolproof. What makes me not a true Rationalist is that I do not believe that reason alone can provide full understanding. The principles of reason must have basis in fact, which is proven through a large sample of experience (example: gravity is fact, because we have never seen it fail).

    (Speaking of that, you said my definition of empiricism was made-up and false; how so? I looked up the dictionary definition, and I did add "personal," but how does that change the meaning? You do not have experience outside of your personal experience.)

    I am starting a new thread, where you can continue if you like.
    I will post the link here...

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...tml#post164244
    Last edited by TheLastMohican; 03-19-2008 at 12:36 PM. Reason: Adding a link

  4. #54
    Senior Member TheLastMohican's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineLine View Post
    That's the way I look at it. The purpose of brains and achievements is for attaining the best partner and the best love. Other than that, what the hell else are brains good for?



    Hm. So I suppose if don't have a girlfriend, and don't want one, then I might as well jump off a cliff?

    Love is the least of our priorities. How about using our brains to solve the mysteries of the universe?

  5. #55
    Highly Hollow Wandering's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duke of York View Post
    Whoa, I did sound like some kind of verbose professor in paragraph.
    I guess that is why you found my being an NT so funny?
    I didn't find your being an NT to be funny. What I found funny was how *obviously* you are an NT: not the same thing

    Well, I would have a greater understanding of human thought. But is it worth it? I could also have a greater understanding of a homicidal psychopath's mind if I was caused to think like him for a month or two, but I simply do not want to understand it. If something is irrational, all there is to understand is that you don't want to be so corrupted as to be able to understand it.
    How can you hope to solve the mysteries of the Universe if you don't even understand how your neighbour is thinking ?

    Okay, next: The highest form of living. Those who are irrational probably enjoy life more most of the time. Ignorance is bliss for those who suffer from it. In my case, though, I would know what I once had, and would feel the loss of my rational quality.
    Yes, but how do you know you wouldn't enjoy what love brings you? You don't know that. Maybe this loss of your rational quality would be *worth* it?

    Being afraid to fall in love because you will be slightly unreasonable for a few months, is like being afraid to go swimming because you won't be able to walk on the floor. No you won't be able to walk, but you will discover about swimming. Is it worth it? Nobody knows before they try. Some people hate swimming, others love it, and you can't know where you'll fall on that spectrum until you actually try it. Saying "nah, I won't like it because I won't be able to walk" is unreasonable: you don't KNOW that.

    All right, I understand your point. People like to be in love. But then they complain when it doesn't work out, and a great deal of emotional upheaval results when the love is over. What if it causes more pain than pleasure? Overall, would most people have been happier if they hadn't gotten into the vicious circle in the first place?
    Maybe, maybe not. But we'll never know. Because nobody can have it both ways. Maybe you'll be happier if you stay away from love - or maybe you'll live a life that, no matter how grand it is, will be comparably miserable next to what could have been if you had let love in. You'll NEVER know, because you have to choose one OR the other. Statistics can't help you, reason can't help you, logic can't help you, because you have only ONE life, and thus must make a choice.

    ***

    Quote Originally Posted by Duke of York View Post
    However, if you simply avoid the person you think you might be fallingin love with, and don't see the person for a long time, wouldn't your condition go away?
    Never worked for me

    ***

    Quote Originally Posted by Duke of York View Post
    Love is the least of our priorities. How about using our brains to solve the mysteries of the universe?
    And? What good will that do to anyone? How will it make people HAPPIER? Especially when compared to good ol' LUUUURVE ?

  6. #56
    Senior Member Nameless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duke of York View Post
    Hm. So I suppose if don't have a girlfriend, and don't want one, then I might as well jump off a cliff?

    Love is the least of our priorities. How about using our brains to solve the mysteries of the universe?
    Isn't love one of the mysteries of the universe?

  7. #57
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Most of your best investments carry some sizable risk. Different people have different levels of risk tolerance.

    Myself, I attempted to reduce risks where I could. There is a lot of study done on factors that contribute to successful long term romantic relationships, so the data is out there. The infatuation lasts only a few months to a few years, a tiny portion of a lifespan, so it isn't that huge a deal. Just because you have strong feelings about someone does not mean you cannot analyze the concrete factors and act intelligently. You don't lose all power of will.

    Being in a happy partnership has many long term physical and mental health benefits and it is also extremely pleasant. But it is an investment and, of course, there is risk. Each person has to decide if and what they are willing to invest.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless View Post
    Isn't love one of the mysteries of the universe?
    Yeh, kinda like the God debate.... can't actually prove it exists... just personal experience, rhetoric from others... have to view the results of the intangible and take it on faith that it does.

  9. #59
    Member Judous's Avatar
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    Love isn't a mystery; also it is not illogical or irrational. I think that a lot of people do not approach it the way they should

    I basically look at it like this. If I feel I love that person then I ask myself... do they enrich my life? Do I only love them because I’m looking for someone to love? Would we be able to make it a long time with each other? I ask myself these questions because the feeling of love is not the only thing dictating whether or not you should be with someone, which is merely one of the aspects. Though an important one obviously.

    I usually approach love like I would a poker game. I fold if I know I don't have a great chance at winning. When I have the best possible hand that’s when I start making big bets. Because even though you’re gambling a lot of what you have, that big pot can you back a lot more.
    Last edited by Judous; 03-20-2008 at 04:13 PM. Reason: Spelling

  10. #60
    Senior Member TheLastMohican's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wandering View Post
    I didn't find your being an NT to be funny. What I found funny was how *obviously* you are an NT: not the same thing


    How can you hope to solve the mysteries of the Universe if you don't even understand how your neighbour is thinking ?


    Yes, but how do you know you wouldn't enjoy what love brings you? You don't know that. Maybe this loss of your rational quality would be *worth* it?

    Being afraid to fall in love because you will be slightly unreasonable for a few months, is like being afraid to go swimming because you won't be able to walk on the floor. No you won't be able to walk, but you will discover about swimming. Is it worth it? Nobody knows before they try. Some people hate swimming, others love it, and you can't know where you'll fall on that spectrum until you actually try it. Saying "nah, I won't like it because I won't be able to walk" is unreasonable: you don't KNOW that.


    Maybe, maybe not. But we'll never know. Because nobody can have it both ways. Maybe you'll be happier if you stay away from love - or maybe you'll live a life that, no matter how grand it is, will be comparably miserable next to what could have been if you had let love in. You'll NEVER know, because you have to choose one OR the other. Statistics can't help you, reason can't help you, logic can't help you, because you have only ONE life, and thus must make a choice.

    ***


    Never worked for me

    ***


    And? What good will that do to anyone? How will it make people HAPPIER? Especially when compared to good ol' LUUUURVE ?
    You sound a bit like my INFJ mother. (I don't mean that in a bad way.)

    I appreciate your advice. My one objection is that when you go swimming, you know you can get out of the pool whenever you want to.

    I think the prospect of my potential achievements being lessened by marriage is something want to avoid at all costs. I do not care how enjoyable the other choice might be; I care about my legacy (especially the way I view my purposefulness in my own head).

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