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  1. #1
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    Default Consciously Changing From INTP to ENTJ?

    Hello everyone,

    I'm relatively new to typology, although I've been aware of it for many years. I was introduced to the four temperaments when I was in middle school, and found them fascinating. Reading through descriptions of the various types, I identified strongly with characteristics of the INTP. I took an online quiz at the time and was scored as an INTP.

    Since then, I've re-tested myself at least once a year and have always gotten INTP. I've never taken an official test, but I'm very confident of my results. There is nothing in the description of an INTP that I don't recognize wthin myself.

    What I'd like to ask the community is, can a person consciously change his or her type -- permanently? I'm currently attending university, and after graduation I intend to pursue a military career, ideally with a commission. I realize that there are many incongruencies between my personality type and my chosen career. I don't think that a prototypical INTP like me would make a capable leader in an infantry unit, or as commander of a larger group of men. I am serious about my future in the military, and I want to have a highly successful career with many opportunities after it's over. I don't feel that I'd be able to do that with my tendency to prolong indecision and to over-analyze situations. Being introverted doesn't help either.

    I believe that the qualities possessed by ENTJs are ideal for military leaders, and I want to integrate as many of them as I can into my own personality. Moreover, I deeply admire the positive traits of ENTJs, and I'd like to see more of them present in myself, regardless of my career choice. I think ENTJs -- in general -- are most adept at directly dealing with the external world.

    Is there any process for achieving this? Does the relationship between INTP and ENTJ bear any significance to such a change? It would seem that modeling my behavior after ENTJs would have the desired effect, but my intuition tells me that this won't work by its lonesome.

    I'm eager to read your thoughts on this. Thank you.

  2. #2
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    cba to read because you dont change type. INTP might learn how to naturally act like an ENTJ and therefore think that he changed type, even tho he just learned new ways to act in situations.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  3. #3
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    The bad news:
    *INTP really is not a good fit for the military (been there, done that - could not have FATHOMED doing 20+ years), but that does not mean that you personally could not be a success in that environment - don't let anyone tell you that you can't do something. This was just my personal experience.
    *Military doesn't allow for much "I" or "P". Those individuals tend to run into problems in the military. Even ESTP's/ISTP's - they want to goof off and have fun, but that's not really what the military is about. If you want to have fun, the military probably isn't the best place to do that. It's about results, "getting stuff done" - NOW!!! It's ESTJ all the way in the enlisted ranks. Officer ranks = xNTJ. But, again, that doesn't mean that you can't be successful. I'm just laying out the facts.

    The good news:
    *Just because you're INTP does not mean you are not cut out for leadership. The NT mindset is very well-suited to leadership because it sees the big picture, it has vision, and your logical thinking helps you to see what is "wrong" with a siutation", what needs to be fixed/improved, what could be done better/more efficiently, etc. "I" and "P" as you mention, can be problems in a leadership role, if you let them. There's nothing wrong with a reserved leader (I), so long as he leads by example, cares about the good of his people, and has a vision worth following. P gives you creativity and the ability to think on your feet, but you have to harness the tendency to procrastinate and not get back to people. It's OK to march to the beat of your own drum a little bit (go ahead and give yourself that freedom), but you have to stay organized. If you're just a complete "soup sandwich" (actual military speak, there) and completely unorganized, you'll stand out like a soar thumb in the military and in corporate leadership as well. Don't get rid of your P, but learn to harness it.

    *I agree that ENTJ fits this role the best. But, you really aren't that far away from ENTJ. It just takes some minor tweaks to be honest. You don't want to change who you are (cuz it will make you miserable over the long haul - that's the hard part about a 20 year career - you'll have to make these 'tweaks' in your personality every single day and you can start to feel like you're losing a big part of yourself). But, I tweak myself into an ENTJ in many instances. I was just in a meeting this morning and my time was being wasted. They called a meeting - 1.5 hours - and it was total garbage. So, I said that I wouldn't be attending any more meetings unless we were actually going to accomplish something/learn something and I left early. Others followed me out. The meeting broke up when I left, which shows me that others agreed with what I was saying. The tweak here is that you have to learn and be willing to sort of "impose your will" in certain situations. My natural personality (INTP) would just sit through the meeting and not say anything and be extremely frustrated - because I want to be polite and don't want to make any waves. But, if you learn to give your Ti a voice - when you have a "thought", speak it! Say it! Go ahead and be blunt, but of course use tact and be professional. That's really all it takes for me to "sort of seem like an ENTJ". It's not that hard, really, you just have to ignore Fe a little bit. Cuz Fe doesn't want to offend anybody. Ti (when voiced) doesn't care about offending - it just wants to be efficient. The thought process between an ENTJ and an INTP isn't THAT different - it can actually be quite similar logically speaking - difference is they speak it/demand it, while we tend to stay quiet.

    You can totally do it in the military if you're willing to endure this stuff. It's not easy, I can tell you that (military life). When they say jump, you literally have to say "how high?" For 20 years. But, I'm a firm believer that we can do whatever we wish to do in life.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  4. #4
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Te/Ni and Ti/Ne are different beasts. While it's possible for everyone to use either, using the combination that's not your natural preference all the time, can be exhausting.

    I'd focus less on attempting to change your type and focus more on how to naturally apply what you're good at, bringing out Te/Ni once in awhile for practice.

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    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Te/Ni and Ti/Ne are different beasts. While it's possible for everyone to use either, using the combination that's not your natural preference all the time, can be exhausting.

    I'd focus less on attempting to change your type and focus more on how to naturally apply what you're good at, bringing out Te/Ni once in awhile for practice.
    I agree with this. If an INTP isn't willing to make "tweaks" in his personality (because it's exhausting), then a military career is not ideal. INTP is not the best type for the military, by a long shot.

    If you want it SO BAD that you're willing to make tweaks every single day, then go for it.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  6. #6
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Being an INTP in a leadership position, I can tell you that trying to be more ENTJ is not going to work for you.

    When things need to get done, and I need to ignore my Pness, I have this J-cloak myself in which I can just sit down, and do what needs to be done, and be done with it. It's just a cloak though, and it wears me out if I expose myself to that longer than a few hours a day.

    Can an INTP lead? Sure we can, especially when it is inline with our interests! We have the ability to see what needs to be done and what parts the people below us should do. But we don't lead the way an ENTJ would. We'd be better of staying as true to ourselves as possible, for that doesn't deplete us of our will to proceed.

    As far as military goes. I was glad that I didn't have to enlist, because quite frankly, I know I'd hate it. I just don't like being told what to do when it's not for real. Training excersises and such, I can understand being physically fit and all, but I'd fall out of the boat with so many other excersises that they'd probably boot me from the military because of my ineptness to properly follow command. However, in a real situation, I doubt I'd have that problem, but I know I can't be arsed with all the stuff around it.. I suppose that's just how my mind works. I'm too concerned with the most effecient way I spend my time. And I know for a fact that will not be in line with what the military could offer me.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  7. #7
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Fluffywolf kind of mentioned it in his last paragraph, but another issue in the military for P's is that you will find yourself wanting to "push the envelope" and to sort of rebel and break the rules a little bit. I never got in trouble during my time in the military - I behaved myself. Other than one time that I did something really stupid and got caught, but my supervisor handled it very well - he could have easily handed me my own arse on a silver platter had he wanted to. But, as an example, your hair cannot touch your ears and you have to be clean shaven every single morning. This is just one small, stupid example, but I had to shave every single morning for 3.5 years straight. Yeah, no big deal you may say, but you know what? As a P, sometimes I just don't feel like shaving. I might shave once every 3 days now. I like to get ready in the morning - the way I want to get ready - not the way that someone else tells me to get ready. During my last 6 months, I so badly wanted "out of the box" that I had been stuck in for 3.5 years. I started shaving every other day and sometimes people would start to see that I had a little bit of a 5 o'clock shadow going and they'd get all hot and bothered. There's just not a lot of room for individuality at all. But, I played the game for 4 years - and I did well to boot.

    A lot of the SP's did that too. They'd always get in trouble cuz they were constantly "stretching the rules", seeing what they could get away with. The SJ's had no problems, by and large.

    Some other points:
    *"Ne" is, by and large, useless in the military. Might as well just leave it at home when you leave the house in the morning. Let your dog play with it and chew on it until you get home that night.
    *Lots of politics in terms of getting promoted. The first 2-4 years, promotions are pretty much "automatic" (built-in) as long as you don't screw up. But, after that, it depends a lot on your performance evaluation, which is based on quotas. In my branch, only so many people can get "outstanding" (I think 20% of your peer competition), another 30% can get "excellent", and the remaining 50% gets "satisfactory" or, in rare cases "unsatisfactory". This happens even if everyone is outstanding or everyone is excellent. So, you guessed it, the guys who get "oustanding" are the ones who are friends with the boss, who go to all of the extracurricular events, who go out for drinks after work, etc. I never ran into this problem as I only needed an "outstanding" 1 time for promotion (the other times were fairly automatic) - and I got it. But, I could see very clearly that in future years, I would need to start schmoozing if I wanted to move up the chain. I didn't want any part of it.
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  8. #8
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Wouldn't Ti/Ne be suited for sourcing out military intelligence or code breaking?

  9. #9
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    No, you can't change your type consciously. You however can develop shadow traits or over-emphasize your tertiary, making you appear slightly like another type.

    I'll never not be an NFP, but in specific situations I can mimic an FJ, or be even more convincingly STJ, but it's very stressful and tiring to try to be your shadow type, or to live in your tertiary/inferior functions.

    Happy healthy people function, over all, better when they try to make the best of their natural type. That's not to say you can't tap into those latent strengths, but trying to live in them permanently sounds like a horrible exercise in fail.

  10. #10
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Wouldn't Ti/Ne be suited for sourcing out military intelligence or code breaking?
    Before I posted "Ne is useless in the military", I *almost* said "with the exception of working in the intelligence field". Certainly it could be applicable there. That would probably be the best fit as an officer. But, you're still in a Te environment, a Te organization, and you'll be doing the 8-to-5 thing and following all the protocols, rules, and regs. If one really wanted to unleash Ti/Ne, it'd be much better to own a business, get into some form of entrepreneurship. That way you could unleash Ne and get creative with stuff while analyzing and fine-tuning with Ti. No matter what you do in the military, you are owned by "the man". That just isn't ideal for NP's, IME.

    On the enlisted side (or officer as well) of the Navy, the best fit would be the "nukes" - the guys who work on the bottom decks of aircraft carriers on the nuclear reactors/generators. I knew an INTP who went this route and the ones I knew on the ship all seemed like NTP's. This little "nuke community" on the ship really seemed to have their own thing going on. Nobody talked to them and they didn't talk to anyone else. You'd see them in the food line and they'd just stare at you. They were completely pale cuz they hadn't seen sunlight in months. Had their own area of the ship, their own little world. Some nuke links:
    http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=211672
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Power_School
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

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