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  1. #1
    Member annnie's Avatar
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    Default ENTPs: Optimist? Defeatist? Cynic?

    Hi all

    I'm curious to get some perspective from other ENTPs on your general approach to life. (I mean as a whole, not specific small 'setbacks'/opportunities to come up with a genius solution! )

    One of the things I couldn't really identify with in the ENTP description (though I don't really doubt my type) is the general upbeat-ness, assuming things will be OK, going our own way regardless of the rules. Perhaps I've been like this in the past but lately (last few years) I feel mostly beaten-down, that the "rules" have got the better of me. I don't agree with the "rules" of financial institutions, employers etc etc - at least not just because they are "rules" and have to be followed - but lately I am overwhelmed easily by stuff like "what will the implications be of this" or "but this contract says..." etc.

    I don't enjoy rule following or think it is (necessarily) 'logical' and so on, I hate that I am so constrained by rules and being risk-averse, as I'm not naturally, so I feel like I'm fighting my real tendencies all the time. I just give up on things before even starting them - I "assume" I'll see how the situation will pan out and it won't be in my favour.

    Does anyone else go through a similar thing? Why would this be and (maybe more importantly) anyone knows how I can get back to the happy go lucky self and move on in life. If it's even possible!

    Maybe it is just 'maturity'? (I'm coming up to 30 but don't really see it as a milestone, particularly.)

  2. #2

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    Internally, I am in a constant rebellion against "the man." I try to push my limits as much as possible. Like with by bosses, I see how far I can go in being as chummy and nonchalant with them as I think I can get away with. The way I see it is, they're people, too, just like me, just like him or her or them. There's no reason they should be treated more special than anyone else just because this "hierarchy" says they're above me. Just doesn't make sense. Yes, I admire them for their resourcefulness and having the balls to start their own business, but that doesn't change their DNA. Doesn't make them better than me or the next guy.

    Anyway, my boss is hard-nose ESTJ and I think it kind of drives her crazy that I think this way and treat her this way, but I also think she respects me for it. If I see something she's doing that I think it's too one-track minded in it's logic (ie. doesn't take into account multiple factors) or something I think could be done better, I will tell her - and as candidly as possible. I try (key word: try) to act as an independent, floating entity outside the hierarchy of my workplace. At least, I'm that way to the extent that I don't get fired for insubordination or something. Sometimes that means recognizing when I can't win and putting my ego aside and backing off.

    It's hard and it takes a lot of energy. I've got to always be sensitive to when I might be going too far. But I know that if I don't at least try to have that little bit of freedom, I'd get really depressed very easily. And I have in the past. Sometimes I can get really caught up in how arbitrary everything seems. Just want to give up on the struggle against it.

    And it's depressing to only be able to be creative in a limited setting. Practicality is my sworn nemesis. But it's there. And it's disheartening. Can suck the fun and life out of you. Can make you feel trapped, unstimulated, bored, frustrated, like acting out even more.

    I don't know how you feel, though. :\ I feel that way.

  3. #3
    Senior Member celesul's Avatar
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    So, when I was very little (age 8 to age 16) I was pessimistic and defeatist. Around 16 I decided that being that way wasn't helping me enjoy life, which is my primary goal, and whether or not the world sucks I ought to focus on the good bits. I think all of my friends could class me as an optimist now. I do enjoy life much more now (I'm 19), and I hope I'll be able to maintain this enjoyment as I grow older. Uni is making it harder: I made the mistake of picking a notoriously hard school, but I'm trying not to become bitter. It takes some effort. I don't know. Maybe paying more attention to the aspects of your life that you enjoy will help? I tend to pause sometimes and go find something like a flower and revive a sense of wonder at something being so cool and pretty and growing out of the dirt. Taking time to appreciate those bits I find handy, as I can get stuck in a rut if I don't. Then again, I'm not terribly rebellious (and when I am rebellious, I rebel in weird ways. I once read my parents' parenting books and critiqued them based on it. My mom got such a kick out of it. I'm very lucky that she's got a good sense of humor ).
    "'You scoundrel, you have wronged me,' hissed the philosopher. 'May you live forever!'" - Ambrose Bierce

  4. #4
    A window to the soul
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    I'm an optimist. I'm energized by challenges, which includes in relationships. If there's a problem, I'll try to find a solution. I rarely find a reason to think negatively about something; unless, I'm being stifled (and that's the most notable thing that comes to mind at the moment). I'm not crazy about rules (that impede progress/goals), so I may test the limits or push back. For the most part, I try to respect the rules that allow me to achieve greater goals; often for the overall well-being of the group.

    I'm most satisfied in relationships and roles where I'm free to be (and make a difference). I'm known to eventually leave stifling situations or relationships behind, but not after considerable effort in trying to find a workable solution. As far as feeling defeated or cynical for a time, the most notable thing that comes to mind is in the latter scenario.


    Quote Originally Posted by celesul View Post
    Maybe paying more attention to the aspects of your life that you enjoy will help? I tend to pause sometimes and go find something like a flower and revive a sense of wonder at something being so cool and pretty and growing out of the dirt.
    ^ Yes!! I love that idea! Good call. -Stops to smell the flowers- :redface:


    Quote Originally Posted by allegorystory View Post
    And it's depressing to only be able to be creative in a limited setting. Practicality is my sworn nemesis. But it's there. And it's disheartening. Can suck the fun and life out of you. Can make you feel trapped, unstimulated, bored, frustrated, like acting out even more.
    ^ lolz yes!! Equally frustrating for me is to be the only optimist in a group, argh.
    Last edited by A window to the soul; 03-18-2011 at 10:06 AM.

  5. #5
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    I'm pretty emo and very cynical.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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  6. #6
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    ENTPs: Optimist?
    Yes.


    Quote Originally Posted by annnie View Post
    One of the things I couldn't really identify with in the ENTP description (though I don't really doubt my type) is the general upbeat-ness, assuming things will be OK, going our own way regardless of the rules. Perhaps I've been like this in the past but lately (last few years) I feel mostly beaten-down, that the "rules" have got the better of me. I don't agree with the "rules" of financial institutions, employers etc etc - at least not just because they are "rules" and have to be followed - but lately I am overwhelmed easily by stuff like "what will the implications be of this" or "but this contract says..." etc.
    Common sense has to come into it somewhere, faith in things working out and one's inherent ability to fix anything is not in contradiction to considering what bending the rules could imply, it's actually an important part of the process. I don't break rules for the sake of breaking them, I do so because I intuit the outcome and am prepared (or even eager) to accept that, or I know I can manipulate them to my favour. These things have little to nothing to do with my eternal optimism.


    Quote Originally Posted by annnie View Post
    Does anyone else go through a similar thing? Why would this be and (maybe more importantly) anyone knows how I can get back to the happy go lucky self and move on in life. If it's even possible!
    Change environment, can't do that then work on changing your attitude towards it.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by annnie View Post
    Hi all

    I'm curious to get some perspective from other ENTPs on your general approach to life. (I mean as a whole, not specific small 'setbacks'/opportunities to come up with a genius solution! )

    One of the things I couldn't really identify with in the ENTP description (though I don't really doubt my type) is the general upbeat-ness, assuming things will be OK, going our own way regardless of the rules. Perhaps I've been like this in the past but lately (last few years) I feel mostly beaten-down, that the "rules" have got the better of me. I don't agree with the "rules" of financial institutions, employers etc etc - at least not just because they are "rules" and have to be followed - but lately I am overwhelmed easily by stuff like "what will the implications be of this" or "but this contract says..." etc.

    I don't enjoy rule following or think it is (necessarily) 'logical' and so on, I hate that I am so constrained by rules and being risk-averse, as I'm not naturally, so I feel like I'm fighting my real tendencies all the time. I just give up on things before even starting them - I "assume" I'll see how the situation will pan out and it won't be in my favour.

    Does anyone else go through a similar thing? Why would this be and (maybe more importantly) anyone knows how I can get back to the happy go lucky self and move on in life. If it's even possible!

    Maybe it is just 'maturity'? (I'm coming up to 30 but don't really see it as a milestone, particularly.)
    You're just in a funk. ShIt happens.

  8. #8
    Writing... Tamske's Avatar
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    Generally I'm very optimistic. And either I haven't matured yet or it hasn't got to do anything with maturity, because I am thirty now. For me the 30th birthday was an excuse to call all friends together and eat a lot of cake like we used to to when I was ten.
    There have been disappointments and failures in my life. Quite some, even. But I tend to get over them quite quickly. I want to get over them quickly, because I don't want to bore other people with my stupid problems. Especially not emotional ones. I'm ready to show good emotions, but I don't want to show bad ones. I want to get to the "what now?" stage as soon as possible, making plans and dreaming of a future in which everything will go better.

    Eg.
    The discovery that I wasn't really cut out for academic research came, in fact, as a relief. It meant I didn't have to do that any more, even if I was "smart" enough. Some people think it's a waste of my mind to get a PhD in physics and then "have" to teach at a technical high school - but it isn't. Those people don't know how great technical high school students are!
    Got questions? Ask an ENTP!
    I'm female. I just can't draw women

  9. #9
    Senior Member Shimmy's Avatar
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    I'm a bit bi-polar on the subject. I do sometimes feel defeated by the system and it's ridiculous rules. But other times I tend to make my own rules and get by them pretty well (at least for a while).
    (removed)

  10. #10
    You're fired. Lol. Antimony's Avatar
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    I'm cynical and pessimistic, but also optimistic. I generally do enjoy life. At least, I try to. After all, what is the point of wasting your time being miserable? A little dose of pessimism is good, in my opinion.

    I wouldn't worry too much about your negative feelings, but I would try to make the best of the situation.

    By the way, allegorystory, I completely relate to what you said about being nochalant and chummy. That is how I was with my ESTJ teacher. I got away with everything with her, insulted her (jokingly) daily, and disrupted her class. It was greatly amusing.

    Really, I think the biggest thing is avoiding stagnancy. To me, that is absolutely terrible.
    Excuse me, but does this smell like chloroform to you?

    Always reserve the right to become smarter at a future point in time, for only a fool limits themselves to all they knew in the past. -Alex

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