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View Poll Results: Pick one:

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41. You may not vote on this poll
  • NTP - spiritual and religious

    2 4.88%
  • NTP - spiritual but not religious

    6 14.63%
  • NTP - a little spiritual but not seriously so

    4 9.76%
  • NTP - not spiritual at all

    13 31.71%
  • NTP - Other

    0 0%
  • NTJ - spiritual and religous

    4 9.76%
  • NTJ - spiritual but not religious

    2 4.88%
  • NTJ - a little spiritual but not seriously so

    0 0%
  • NTJ - not spiritual at all

    4 9.76%
  • NTJ - Other

    1 2.44%
  • NT - I don't want to pick one but I'll pick this one anyway

    1 2.44%
  • I'm not NT and wanted to pick something

    4 9.76%
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Thread: NT Spirituality

  1. #11
    Junior Member ahr2nd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Would humanism fall strictly into non-spiritual, or just barely spiritual?
    Is there something otherworldly about your concern for others?

    Quote Originally Posted by ultimawepun View Post
    And why is that people can't accept science as an answer? Is empathy not as beautiful if there weren't a magical force that intervenes? Must your motivations be beyond physical to give it importance? Is love not as romantic if it's bound by the possibility-filled reality called life? Is it not enough?
    Reminds me of a very short essay by Jesse Bering, "director of the Institute of Cognition and Culture at the Queen's University, Belfast," from the book What Is Your Dangerous Idea?: Today's Leading Thinkers on the Unthinkable. (Makes for a great bathroom reader!)

    Here's an excerpt that you may find interesting:

    "But my dangerous idea, I fear, is that no matter how far our thoughts vault into the eternal sky of scientific progress, no matter how dazzling the effects of this progress, God will always bite through his muzzle and banish us from the starry night of humanistic ideals.

    Science is an endless series of binding and rebinding his breath. There will never be a day when God does not speak for the majority. There will never even be a day when he does not whisper into the ears of the most godless of scientists. This is not because God is not an idea, nor a cultural invention, nor an 'opiate of the masses,' nor any such thing. God is a way of thinking that has been rendered permanently by natural selection..."
    A biological predisposition? That could make for an interesting investigation. (Also, I think that empathy is more beautiful if there isn't some sort of divine incentive, so I agree with you on that one.)

  2. #12
    royal member Rasofy's Avatar
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    I just don't know in which part of the evolutionary process we humans were gifted with a soul.
    Or maybe people think every bacteria has a soul.
    I'm guessing a prehistoric INFJ of the guru variation had this idea that we all have souls and started to disseminate it, and there we are

  3. #13
    Member ultimawepun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahr2nd View Post
    A biological predisposition? That could make for an interesting investigation. (Also, I think that empathy is more beautiful if there isn't some sort of divine incentive, so I agree with you on that one.)
    Perhaps exaggeration. I partly agree that the concept of God, or the Ultimate Cause as I'd like to properly call it, will continuously be associated with the pursuit of understanding life*.

    Religion and superstition on the other hand are concepts that I believe, can be slowly omitted through time. They are just impatient answers to an enigmatic phenomenon in my opinion.

    *Euphemism for science. No one likes the word science.

  4. #14
    (blankpages) Xenon's Avatar
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    I answered according to the first definition: I don't believe in supernatural beings or phenomena, so I said "not spiritual at all". The second definition is pretty vague (what is "the spirit"?)

    I have always thought the word "spiritual" was supposed to describe someone who did not follow an organized religion, but believed in a higher power or an afterlife, or certain new agey "woo" ideas. Only recently have I begun to hear it used in a different way. It seems a number of non-religious people are searching for some term that described a strong sense of meaning or purpose, or connectedness to something greater, or thoughts or practices that are life-affirming, or a sense of wonder and reverence for the universe and for life. Some examples:

    The Centre for Spiritual Atheism
    For Spiritual Atheists, being "Spiritual" means (at the very least) to nurture thoughts, words, and actions that are in harmony with the idea that the entire universe is, in some way, connected; even if only by the mysterious flow of cause and effect at every scale.

    Therefore, Spiritual Atheists generally feel that as they go about their lives striving to be personally healthy and happy, they should also be striving to help the world around them be healthy and happy. (This empowering concept is referred to as "Wholistic Ethics".)
    Spirituality for the Skeptic: The Thoughtful Love of Life
    Solomon (business and philosophy, Univ. of Texas, Austin; A Passion for Wisdom) has no sympathy for New Age spirituality or any family heritage of traditional religious practice. Nevertheless, he has also grown weary of academic philosophy's tendency toward "clever paradox and puzzle-solving" and "often cynical obscurantism." "Philosophy," he reminds us, "is a spiritual practice." He looks to philosophy itself, especially the work of Hegel and Nietzsche, to provide the tools to pursue a naturalized spirituality, spirituality as "the thoughtful love of life." Separate chapters address thoughtful spirituality as characterized by passion, cosmic trust, and rationality; as facing up to tragedy, fate, and death; and as fostering transformation of the self.
    I think the idea has a lot of value, and it's important to get across that not believing in the supernatural doesn't doom you to an empty, meaningless life. A depressing number of religious or "spiritual" people believe this about atheists/naturalists/skeptics. Hell, a lot of us who once held supernatural beliefs and eventually let go of them went through a period of believing this. But I'm not wild about using the term "spiritual" to describe this sense of meaning or transcendence or wonder. It creates too much confusion. It sounds too mystical-magical-airy-fairy-dippy-hippy for me.

    So...I voted no, not spiritual, although I by some alternative definitions I guess I might be.

  5. #15
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    My general observation of NT vs NF spiritality is that NT is more detached/impersonal and views it systematically, while NF is more apt to personalize it (into a being/beings/community).
    Yes. I voted "spiritual but not religious". I believe there is more to life than can be objectively measured and proven; perhaps more than we will ever be able to measure and prove. (Yes, this is itself a belief that cannot be proven.) But, I expect a certain degree of logic and internal consistency in a belief system. Most religions fall short, which is why I have no patience with them. I pursue my spirituality in my own way, with a small group of like-minded individuals. When I learned to see beyond the religion in which I was brought up (did not take long), it was like having blinders removed.

  6. #16
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beargryllz View Post
    Would humanism fall strictly into non-spiritual, or just barely spiritual?
    Humanism, in the common sense that is synonymous with Secular Humanism, would not be spiritual because it is specifically about a worldview that emphasizes using ethics and human reason without supernaturalism or dogma.

    Humanism, in the most general sense, meaning 'focusing on human values or concerns' is not spiritual in and of itself but could easily be paired with some sort of spirituality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greta View Post
    This poll marginalizes by non-acknowledgment those religious folks who are spiritually vacant.
    I know they're out there.
    Hehehe, I was originally going to directly acknowledge this on the poll, but I figured that since my focus is on spirituality more than religion, those out there who do practice religion without spirituality could be in the "not spiritual at all' category, or perhaps in the 'other' category.

    Quote Originally Posted by ultimawepun View Post
    *Euphemism for science. No one likes the word science.
    I do

    Quote Originally Posted by blankpages View Post
    I answered according to the first definition: I don't believe in supernatural beings or phenomena, so I said "not spiritual at all". The second definition is pretty vague (what is "the spirit"?)
    *edited to dismiss the second definiton for now, since I don't understand it very well either

    Quote Originally Posted by blankpages View Post
    I have always thought the word "spiritual" was supposed to describe someone who did not follow an organized religion, but believed in a higher power or an afterlife, or certain new agey "woo" ideas. Only recently have I begun to hear it used in a different way. It seems a number of non-religious people are searching for some term that described a strong sense of meaning or purpose, or connectedness to something greater, or thoughts or practices that are life-affirming, or a sense of wonder and reverence for the universe and for life.
    Yes, beyond the general meaning, 'spiritual' can take on all sorts of definitions depending on who you ask. According to the definition I am using, connectedness to something greater would qualify as spiritual, but a sense of wonder and reverence for life and the universe would not necessarily be spiritual.

    And for the purposes of the poll, I would see those who believe in a higher power and the afterlife without a specific religion, and those who follow new agey ideas, as 'spiritual but not religious.'

    Quote Originally Posted by blankpages View Post
    The Centre for Spiritual Atheism

    Spirituality for the Skeptic: The Thoughtful Love of Life

    I think the idea has a lot of value, and it's important to get across that not believing in the supernatural doesn't doom you to an empty, meaningless life. A depressing number of religious or "spiritual" people believe this about atheists/naturalists/skeptics. Hell, a lot of us who once held supernatural beliefs and eventually let go of them went through a period of believing this. But I'm not wild about using the term "spiritual" to describe this sense of meaning or transcendence or wonder. It creates too much confusion. It sounds too mystical-magical-airy-fairy-dippy-hippy for me.

    So...I voted no, not spiritual, although I by some alternative definitions I guess I might be.
    Yes, I would consider these kinds of views 'not spiritual,' but still very important as to see the spectrum of nonspirituality as well.

  7. #17
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaLuminosity View Post
    Humanism, in the common sense that is synonymous with Secular Humanism, would not be spiritual because it is specifically about a worldview that emphasizes using ethics and human reason without supernaturalism or dogma.

    Humanism, in the most general sense, meaning 'focusing on human values or concerns' is not spiritual in and of itself but could easily be paired with some sort of spirituality.



    Hehehe, I was originally going to directly acknowledge this on the poll, but I figured that since my focus is on spirituality more than religion, those out there who do practice religion without spirituality could be in the "not spiritual at all' category, or perhaps in the 'other' category.



    I do



    *edited to dismiss the second definiton for now, since I don't understand it very well either



    Yes, beyond the general meaning, 'spiritual' can take on all sorts of definitions depending on who you ask. According to the definition I am using, connectedness to something greater would qualify as spiritual, but a sense of wonder and reverence for life and the universe would not necessarily be spiritual.

    And for the purposes of the poll, I would see those who believe in a higher power and the afterlife without a specific religion, and those who follow new agey ideas, as 'spiritual but not religious.'



    Yes, I would consider these kinds of views 'not spiritual,' but still very important as to see the spectrum of nonspirituality as well.
    Thanks for those clarifications. As a strictly secular humanist, you can put me down under "not spiritual at all" then.
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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  8. #18
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Not sure what to vote. There are places in nature that "feel" spiritual, where you "feel" a connection to nature. People have an essence, they're living concepts.

    But neither religious or spiritual, as it pertains to the transcendental shit or a believer of ghosts and goblins.

  9. #19
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    I believe in Santa and his awesomeness.

  10. #20
    Member Caesar's Avatar
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    I disbelieve in God and supernatural things. I prefer to be "philosophical".
    "Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation." - Oscar Wilde

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