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  1. #1
    Luctor et emergo Ezra's Avatar
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    Default Is self-denial always a bad thing?

    I'm not talking about 'self-denial' as such, but rather the opposite of self-acceptance; non-self-acceptance if you like. Basically, I'll often go through phases where I have a problem with any given aspect of myself; I'll reflect on an event that I was a part of, and I'll think to myself "I didn't like the way I reacted to it". So I make a conscious effort to change the way I react to said event next time it occurs. For example, I'll become too enthusiastic about something; jumping ahead of myself. Then I think "I should be more perturbed and reserved"; this is purely instinctive, and seems not to have a rational basis, other than preserving my external image. It's not about getting approval from those around me, it's about doing something for myself; for my own sake. So for a short time I'll keep this reserved exterior. But my true self always comes through. Always. I'll get more loud, more excitable, more enthusiastic, expansive and aggressive in my speech and intonations, or whatever. I simply cannot keep a 'reserved' exterior. It's not a part of me. And yet I'll continue to have these feelings now and then about how I need to do or become certain things in order to reach a state of self-contentedness. I refuse to accept my inherent characteristics, knowing that many of them will only get me into trouble, and yet gradually, they always come back to me. They control me; I don't control them. It's a constant issue I'm grappling with. Does anyone else have this?

  2. #2
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Something like this?

  3. #3
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Edahn isn't allowed to post in this thread as he threw his shirt/skirt over his head at recess and showed everyone on the playground his ruffled panties. How rude!
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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  4. #4
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Yes, when I was younger, I kept wanting to be more well-rounded, more this, more that, less this, less that -- I just always thought I needed to work to achieve this ideal I had in my head of who I could be.

    The last number of years has been more a matter of me accepting who I am and embracing it. It doesn't mean I can't try to take on those good qualities that maybe aren't innate but that could be useful to me. It just means I shouldn't beat myself up and expect myself to become highly skilled at them... or at least not unless I want to work at them. (i.e., no self-recrimination if they never become second nature).

    I think it's basically the discarding of "shame." No beating myself. I am who I am. And that's okay.

    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    Edahn isn't allowed to post in this thread as he threw his shirt/skirt over his head at recess and showed everyone on the playground his ruffled panties. How rude!
    Gross, what a freak!

    (were they pink?)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #5
    you are right mippus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    I'm not talking about 'self-denial' as such, but rather the opposite of self-acceptance; non-self-acceptance if you like. Basically, I'll often go through phases where I have a problem with any given aspect of myself; I'll reflect on an event that I was a part of, and I'll think to myself "I didn't like the way I reacted to it". So I make a conscious effort to change the way I react to said event next time it occurs. For example, I'll become too enthusiastic about something; jumping ahead of myself. Then I think "I should be more perturbed and reserved"; this is purely instinctive, and seems not to have a rational basis, other than preserving my external image. It's not about getting approval from those around me, it's about doing something for myself; for my own sake. So for a short time I'll keep this reserved exterior. But my true self always comes through. Always. I'll get more loud, more excitable, more enthusiastic, expansive and aggressive in my speech and intonations, or whatever. I simply cannot keep a 'reserved' exterior. It's not a part of me. And yet I'll continue to have these feelings now and then about how I need to do or become certain things in order to reach a state of self-contentedness. I refuse to accept my inherent characteristics, knowing that many of them will only get me into trouble, and yet gradually, they always come back to me. They control me; I don't control them. It's a constant issue I'm grappling with. Does anyone else have this?
    Hm, why should that be negative? It's okay to have ambitions for personal growth, seems like it is just a matter of using the right labels for it . As long as you don't start hating yourself for not obtaining your personality goals, all this seems preferable than being satisfied with who you are and become a caricature of yourself...
    Vanitas vanitatum omnia vanitas

  6. #6
    you are right mippus's Avatar
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    Jennifer how come that so often you post while I am typing an answer in the same thread? Then I am late, and look stupid because of your answer. Should I hate or admire you for that?
    Vanitas vanitatum omnia vanitas

  7. #7
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mippus View Post
    Jennifer how come that so often you post while I am typing an answer in the same thread? Then I am late, and look stupid because of your answer. Should I hate or admire you for that?
    Admire and love me, of course.

    (You could also just spin it on its head: Maybe I'm just your "opening act" and you're the main event.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #8
    Procrastinating
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    This is a pretty constant state for me and, probably, contributes to my "I" staying so strong. I have to take issue with what you said about it having nothing to do with approval from others though because there has to be a source for those wishes to change. I suppose, for some, it could have a spiritual origin having nothing to do with the mundane.... that's the only thing I can think of right now... but we're social animals as humans and whether we're convinced we should be this way or another does come from outside sources... whether that's a person we've talked with, seen how they looked at us or paid attention to some author sitting alone at their desk, we are influenced. Of course, I don't mean in the "needy" sense but our yardstick is probably based on the approval of society/individuals more than we care to admit sometimes. It begins with our parents and I don't think we ever escape the need for approval.

    Okay, that long thing given, I am really socially inept... always saying/doing the wrong thing at the wrong time or the right thing the wrong way. Its happened over and over again and I know how severly I have been judged... so, yes, that has affected me. Can I change to being more competent? No, I don't think so after trying very hard during a certain period of my life. So what can I do about it? I can work with what I have and change another area to accomodate the situation... I can choose to be around intelligent, non-judgemental/forgiving, tolerant and accepting people. Tall order huh? Yes, but there's a better chance of success in that.

    Being typically "P"... I want to come back to this as its an interest of mine too... thanks for the thread... gotta run right now.

  9. #9
    Luctor et emergo Ezra's Avatar
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    I love the way four INTPs alone looked into this thread.

    Edahn, not quite. I'm the last person to feel 'shame', as such. Rather a sporadic desire to improve upon certain aspects of myself which I find to be undesirable in certain circumstances. (I know that seemed longwinded, but it gets the point across effectively enough.) Either that, or I'm just denying my shame, or it's deeply embedded within me.

  10. #10
    Highly Hollow Wandering's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    I refuse to accept my inherent characteristics, knowing that many of them will only get me into trouble, and yet gradually, they always come back to me. They control me; I don't control them. It's a constant issue I'm grappling with. Does anyone else have this?
    For me, that's typically a part of my shadow Fi taking too prominent a place in my mind. I start having all those ideas about how I should be like this or like that, I should act like this, I should react like that. I'll stress myself out trying to micro-manage every aspect of my composure or whatever, until hopefully I just accidentally start having a good time and I simply forget about all those "shoulds", I start behaving like myself again, and I realise all those shoulds are stupid. Or else things go wrong, I make myself crash out of over-control, and I come to realise I've been stupid trying to be something I'm not.

    I have no idea whether any of this applies in any way to you, though.

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