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View Poll Results: What is your view on religion as an ENTP?

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  • I am Christian and very serious about it

    14 29.79%
  • I'm Christian...whateva

    1 2.13%
  • I was raised Christian and came to my senses

    13 27.66%
  • Christians freak me the funk out, stay away!

    4 8.51%
  • I'm down with the Buddha

    5 10.64%
  • I'm Muslim

    1 2.13%
  • Judaism is my thing

    3 6.38%
  • Athists are better lovers

    8 17.02%
  • Agnostics are fearless lovers

    12 25.53%
  • Dude, what the hell, you forgot mine!

    5 10.64%
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Results 41 to 50 of 279

  1. #41
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegorystory View Post
    But this is a conclusion based on an argument that assumes that "God exists" in the first place. Until you prove that your statement has no meaning.

    We currently have no proof either way.
    My point is that the two belief systems have two very different results. In one Truth and beauty exist in the other everything just is and beauty is just a name for biologically driven preferences and not a thing that exists independent of humans.

    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    The issue with that line of reasoning is that 1) you assume that reason go for absolutes when that's actually more generally the view theists have about 'rational people'.
    For reason to be worth a damn it must rest on truthful presumptions which require absolutes. If you don't believe in any absolutes I fail to see why you would take any meaningful position on the matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    Unprovable would also apply to any of your claims, the difference is, no matter how unreliable the information we have is; models based on some possibly unreliable information (maybe our sense lie or we are manipulated etc etc.) is still infinitely more reliable than claims made with no information backing it.
    I think you are misapplying what I'm saying. I'm not saying claims are unprovable I'm saying our basic functions our unreliable in themselves. What we sense and know the very process of data collection is marred with uncertainty. I addressed this with you before in the link provided above.

    So claims with what you call "information" backing them are not more reliable than any other claim.

    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    On a side note, attacking thesis 1 doesn't make thesis 2 true, common fallacy.
    I never said I'm right because you're wrong.


    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    And that's bad .. why ?
    The point is there is no bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    It's like saying that pedophiles don't exist because I don't like the idea.
    But, that would be true. In a sense it wouldn't exist. The word pedophile is totally wrapped up in value judgements. One would never use the word on a an older male chimp molesting a young male chimp. So if nobody liked the idea of pedophilia the value driven concept would vanish, even if men continued to molest young boys and girls.

    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    Also the whole bit about god being necessary for values etc is silly. Your whole line of argument is based upon the assumption that things can only have one 'function' at a time while everyday life shows that's never the case (same for the link you gave me).
    Ever heard about relativity ?
    This is completely confusing. How does my argument rest on the idea that everything must have one function at a time?

    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    And if one looks at the supposed 'word of God' (abraham based religions) the rules and lessons aren't even consistent with each other.
    Yes, they are. You don't want to challenge me here.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  2. #42
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    But, without God there is no reason to love or admire anything... everything just is. Without God all value judgements (including what is beautiful) are completely subjective and just the result of chemical reactions in the human brain. Nothing more.
    If it has meaning to you, what does the rest of it matter?

  3. #43
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    If it has meaning to you, what does the rest of it matter?
    It's the difference between taking the red pill and the blue pill.

    [YOUTUBE="uGQF8LAmiaE"]red pill or blue pill[/YOUTUBE]
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  4. #44
    Buddhist Misanthrope Samvega's Avatar
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    Yin and Yang, Night and Day, Fire and Water, Hot and Cold, Doubt and Faith, I would call anybody a fool for trying to embrace one without the other. This however is the exact thing we see most faiths doing, they want to embrace faith yet reject doubt which is an impossibility leaving you with neither faith nor doubt but an illusion. Embracing doubt means you see the same truth in the beliefs you reject as those you embrace and in doing so a universal truth is created. You understand everybody has the same beginning/comes from the same place and you know all will have the same end/go to the same place. The difference being what we think in the middle which has nothing to do with reality as that is the unchanging/unknown variable, it's universal. The exception to this being all will have the afterlife of their respective faiths but that would invalidate your faith as well and reduce it to picking out a toothbrush.

    I have no attachment to any outcome, I'm here, I'm thankful for that, if however I got here wants to be thanked for giving this to me I will be happy to do so when the time comes and it's my assertion that time will be very clear.

  5. #45
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    It's the difference between taking the red pill and the blue pill.
    However, wasn't the ultimate point of the Matrix that the choice was after all, meaningless, and that through constantly chasing after a Platonic ideal, and seeking to impose our version of truth, that we sow the seeds of our own destruction?

    Zion would be destroyed as long as Neo believed that the Matrix must be destroyed. It was not until both sides came to an understanding that respected the validity of the other's perspective of the world that the war ended, wasn't it?

  6. #46
    Senior Member Lightyear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samvega View Post
    If I meet an ENTP [or intuitive for that matter] I normally commence with the Christian bashing assuming there's no way on earth they could be one. Likewise, if I meet a sensor I assume they are and proceed with caution.

    Don't get me wrong, I have respect for all faiths but intuitives tend to be rational people and since rational arguments don't normally work on religious people (otherwise, there would be no religious people) I tend to assume intuitives have processed Christianity and dismissed it, something sensors don't tend to do.

    Thoughts and ideas would be great as I have no attachment to being right, just curious how the numbers play out.
    Wow. I haven't seen that many stupid stereotypes in one post for ages.

  7. #47
    Buddhist Misanthrope Samvega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightyear View Post
    Wow. I haven't seen that many stupid stereotypes in one post for ages.

    I know right, it's like saying black people are faster runners than white people! Oh wait, that's a true stereo type /: Okay, it's more like saying more Ns are lawyers and more Ss are teachers and nurses! Oh wait, that's true too. I'm just confused now, I'm not even sure if I agree with my original assessment so please, will some Christian ENTPs come in here and prove what an idiot I am for stereotyping a whole MBTI group. It's not like I'm calling ENTPs "inventors" or INFJs "counselors" which would REALLY be stereotyping and enough to turn anybody off to a concept that by design would fail to exists without stereotyping.

  8. #48
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samvega View Post
    Okay, it's more like saying more Ns are lawyers and more Ss are teachers and nurses!
    Most lawyers are SJs. I know this from experience. Just sayin'

  9. #49
    Senior Member Lightyear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samvega View Post
    I know right, it's like saying black people are faster runners than white people! Oh wait, that's a true stereo type /: Okay, it's more like saying more Ns are lawyers and more Ss are teachers and nurses! Oh wait, that's true too. I'm just confused now, I'm not even sure if I agree with my original assessment so please, will some Christian ENTPs come in here and prove what an idiot I am for stereotyping a whole MBTI group. It's not like I'm calling ENTPs "inventors" or INFJs "counselors" which would REALLY be stereotyping and enough to turn anybody off to a concept that by design would fail to exists without stereotyping.
    I believe that there is a certain truth behind a lot of stereotypes so I am not against stereotyping per se but the brush strokes you are using while stereotyping are so ridiciously wide that I can't take your conclusions seriously.

    Basically you are saying in your initial post:

    intuitive = rational
    being a Christian = irrational

    intuitives ≠ Christians

    Just from my own experience I can tell you that you are wrong. I am an intutive and a Christian (after having been brought up as an atheist), I know a lot of intuitives who are Christians (including ENTPs) and whom I wouldn't describe as irrational at all, instead they are educated, sane individuals.

    As I said, I just can't take your initial post seriously because the conclusions you are drawing are so far-fetched.

  10. #50
    Buddhist Misanthrope Samvega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightyear View Post
    I believe that there is a certain truth behind a lot of stereotypes so I am not against stereotyping per se but the brush strokes you are using while stereotyping are so ridiciously wide that I can't take your conclusions seriously.

    Basically you are saying in your initial post:

    intuitive = rational
    being a Christian = irrational

    intuitives ≠ Christians

    Just from my own experience I can tell you that you are wrong. I am an intutive and a Christian (after having been brought up as an atheist), I know a lot of intuitives who are Christians (including ENTPs) and whom I wouldn't describe as irrational at all, instead they are educated, sane individuals.

    As I said, I just can't take your initial post seriously because the conclusions you are drawing are so far-fetched.

    The next post I make I will base it on the exceptions to the stereo types instead of the rules and we'll see if that makes more sense. There is an injection of humor in here that you may be missing, the thought train went a little more along these lines:

    SJs = Irrational
    Christianity = Irrational
    SJs = The majority of Christians and the majority of the population
    Ns = Big picture, find logic appealing rational thinkers
    Ns = Rarely Christian and the minority of the population

    This would be much along the same lines as saying the majority of TypeC users are intuitives and while you could find A LOT of sensors on here they are drastically outnumbers when compared to the real world.

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