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View Poll Results: What is your view on religion as an ENTP?

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  • I am Christian and very serious about it

    14 29.79%
  • I'm Christian...whateva

    1 2.13%
  • I was raised Christian and came to my senses

    13 27.66%
  • Christians freak me the funk out, stay away!

    4 8.51%
  • I'm down with the Buddha

    5 10.64%
  • I'm Muslim

    1 2.13%
  • Judaism is my thing

    3 6.38%
  • Athists are better lovers

    8 17.02%
  • Agnostics are fearless lovers

    12 25.53%
  • Dude, what the hell, you forgot mine!

    5 10.64%
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  1. #221
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    Well it's from a novel, not his life, books need to have catch phrases. He actually considered politics etc to be a fact of life with the idea that there's no such thing as 'not taking a position'. He wasn't living in a cave or anything. S
    Actually, it is from a play.

  2. #222
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    I'm sorry for not saving every conversations we ever had. I only keep interesting stuff.
    In other words you have nothing.

  3. #223
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    I just said that religious people are delusional, which until proof of the contrary is as much a fact as saying that rain is wet.
    This 'logic' thing... You understand how it's supposed to work, right?

  4. #224
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    Well it's from a novel, not his life, books need to have catch phrases. He actually considered politics etc to be a fact of life with the idea that there's no such thing as 'not taking a position'. He wasn't living in a cave or anything. S
    Calm down, bro. You're taking this far too seriously.

  5. #225
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    In other words you have nothing.
    Must be awful to live in a world where nothing is interesting.

  6. #226
    Senior Member Perch420's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    The funny thing is.

    If we (the believers) are wrong we lose nothing.

    If however, you are wrong... you lose everything.
    What if Bin Laden is right and when you die you will go to hell for being a Christian? What makes one variation of the afterlife more likely to occur than another? Probability wise, the sheer amount of different religions with the belief that anyone not of their faith will suffer forever, you will almost certainly end up in some sort of hell or another. I can't believe I'm even arguing this. A 5th grader could dismantle these arguments. I was always an atheist, but I was pretty ambivalent about religion. It had its purposes, I thought. Now, I see that the only purpose it has is to propagate itself; it's the definition of a virus.

  7. #227
    Buddhist Misanthrope Samvega's Avatar
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    I love Christianity by design, it's almost flawless in its built in system to deal with followers questioning it as it's with the devil making you do so.

    You do however gotta give a faith respect for having so much faith in itself it's built around questioning not only everything but also the very foundation of the faith.

    If I hadda pick one, I would pick that one that allowed me to do funked up shit in the name of God. I'd avoid that virgin crap though, I like sexually empowered women!

  8. #228
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    This thread should be renamed.

    The arguing marathon or something.. .

  9. #229

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    Quote Originally Posted by guesswho View Post
    This thread should be renamed.

    The arguing marathon or something.. .
    Yeah, no kidding! I like debating for the sake of debating as much as the next NT, but things just got really silly here really fast.

  10. #230
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Again, I was talking about how Christianity is linear, in terms of the Bible that embodies it. It starts at Genesis/creation, then goes through Revelation and projects to an endpoint. Everything is about projection through that endpoint. And when people get to heaven, they seem to pretty uniformly believe that people stay there forever. Perfection -> Fall -> Struggle -> Perfection --> STOP. End of story. The main bulk of Christians vehemently deny circular paths such as reincarnation.
    While I don't believe in reincarnation I don't really believe things stop... that is I don't think people are stuck in heaven for eternity constantly bowing. I think there will be a new earth (probably the same earth just revitalized) and everyone will have a physical body and life will go on as it does today just with no evil.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Other cultures might be far more about cycles, seasons, rise and fall, and good and evil are not necessarily enemies but two sides of the same coin.
    I understand this. The two sides of the coin thing does get under my skin, but I believe that because of it's opposition to eastern religions Christianity has really underemphasized the importance of cycles and seasons. Even the circumstances under which evil should be expected and accepted.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Western vs Eastern or even tribal culture also mirrors Levi-Stauss' view of hot/cold cultures. Western culture, with its constant focus on "moving forward" toward better things with an endpoint of perfection, is wrapped up in Christianity. More tribal cultures that are labeled as cold do not having time moving forward inevitably, are not as nearly focused on "progress," and are instead about maintaining a circular balance, a stable balance.
    I think you're right to some extent, but I hate the worship of progress. To me the focus on moving things forward is a refusal to respect God's sovereignty and timing. This of course has huge real world such as the christian support of israel based on eschatological views.

    I like stability and balance far more than I like progress.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Kirk Cameron as "Neo." I guess we should be glad it was Keanu!



    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I'm sketch-painting -- but I'm talking mostly about the Christian culture that is fairly affluent (upper-lower to middle through upper class, including the mega churches), that does utilizes more modern worship (since those who strongly confine themselves to hymns probably avoiding interacting and absorbing from the current culture altogether), that tends to vote politically conservative and have conservative takes on public issues, are into Christian media, etc. Does that help?
    If those people are liberal you must come from an uber-fundie background.

    i was thinking you meant like mainline protestant liberal.





    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    The original writers of the Gospels used particular words and forms when Jesus was speaking in a allegorical fashion, such as in the parables. They used different ones when he was speaking plainly. Everything Jesus said involving wealth and treatment of the poor was written in the literal fashion.
    Yes, I didn't say he was speaking allegorically I said he was speaking personally. That is he wasn't preaching to a crowd, but was speaking to an individual and telling that particular person what he needed to hear. Since this is a personal message I think it's more important to extract the general principle rather than the exact statement particularly since he never says anything comparable to this in a sermon or to the disciples.

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Jesus wasn't just saying that he needed to give up his possessions because he valued them more than God; he was saying that to have excess wealth was in itself valuing it more than God. If you placed God first, you would willingly give up your wealth to help others, as God had commanded. Remember the two great commandments - "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, and all your mind, and all your soul" and "Love your neighbor as yourself." If you hoard wealth when someone else needs it, you are disobeying the second commandment, and by not keeping His commandments, you are breaking the first.
    You're missing the whole point of the conversation.

    The rich young ruler (ryr) asks Jesus how to gain eternal life.

    Jesus asks him if he has kept the commandments

    The Ryr explains that he has

    Jesus catches him on the 1st commandment and his unwillingness to part with wealth (and he would catch anyone who claimed to keep the commandments)

    The ryr departs saddened

    Jesus then says "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."

    Many people stop right here and ignore the rest of the story presuming this is just about money, but it's not.

    The Crowd then asks: “Who then can be saved?”

    Jesus replies: “What is impossible with man is possible with God.”

    So he could have done this same story with almost anyone and with any sin. The point was that without God people cannot achieve eternal life. Everyone has sin that they can't rid themselves of.

    On a side note I recently heard an interesting theory that the ryr was actually Luke given that we know he came from a rich family and that it is only in Luke's account that the author knows the emotions of the ryr and that he was made sad.

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    That also runs counter to the words of Jesus, who specifically spoke of not being of "this world," of a Kingdom where all the assumptions are turned on their head, of rendering unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's... it honestly doesn't sound anything close to what Jesus said.
    Yes, well the argument goes that even if we are not of the world we are still in it and so the question is to what extent being "in and not of" creates unity between the kingdom of God and the kingdom of man.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

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