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View Poll Results: What is your view on religion as an ENTP?

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  • I am Christian and very serious about it

    14 29.79%
  • I'm Christian...whateva

    1 2.13%
  • I was raised Christian and came to my senses

    13 27.66%
  • Christians freak me the funk out, stay away!

    4 8.51%
  • I'm down with the Buddha

    5 10.64%
  • I'm Muslim

    1 2.13%
  • Judaism is my thing

    3 6.38%
  • Athists are better lovers

    8 17.02%
  • Agnostics are fearless lovers

    12 25.53%
  • Dude, what the hell, you forgot mine!

    5 10.64%
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  1. #161
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegorystory View Post
    Well aren't you presumptuous!

    In what ways does being an Ne dom make someone more inclined to irrationality?
    Ne is irrational function and tert Fe can make entp act in really irrational ways when pissed off a little
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  2. #162
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    The word irrational is used in the MBTI with a similar connotation as "thinking" and "feeling".

  3. #163
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guesswho View Post
    The word irrational is used in the MBTI with a similar connotation as "thinking" and "feeling".
    the word irrational isnt used in mbti, jung used it in his typology.

    "both intuition and sensing are functions that find fulfilment in the absolute perception of the flux of events. Hence, by their very nature, they will react to every possible occurrence and be attuned to the absolute contingent, and must therefore lack all rational direction. For this reason i call them irrational functions, as opposed to thinking and feeling, which find fulfilment only when they are in complete harmony with the laws of reason."

    now you have to understand that perception isnt absolutely all that is, its just an interpretation of what is, or in other words its what seems to be.

    now when you lead with Ne and use Ti as secondary function you check this what seems to be with Ti less than what INTP does, therefore leading into irrational decisions more often because leaning more on the perception(that is subjective and might not be intune with what actually is, but is just an perception of what seems to be from your point of view).

    then there is tert Fe that will go apeshit crazy pretty easily when annoyed and making the person act in really irrational(not in jungs description, but in general sense of irrationality) ways and making non rational quick judgments and make you act on them.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  4. #164
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    I do not understand.

    1. What does being Ne dominant mean?
    2. What does Ne being irrational mean?

    Does being governed by a irrational function make me irrational? Why is it irrational? Because it is non linear and processes everything without priority?

    Saying I am an ENTP is incorrect.
    Saying I have an ENTP preference is correct.

    What is the difference?

    In the second case fluctuation is possible so I prefer Extraversion, but I am not 100% extraverted. Therefor I will also swtich to introversion, but it won't last as long as extraversion, and maybe it will not be equally enjoyable. (just because I have a 55%-60% preference towards extraversion, it does not mean that the rest of 40%-45% introversion is non existent)
    I find it hard to believe that a person with a specific type preference, has the same dominant function all the time.

    So in other words, just because I don't prefer Ti over Ne, it does not necessarily mean that I do not use it as primary.

    But this still makes me prefer an irrational function, and I have difficulty understanding why it's considered irrational.

    The only answer I found is that Jung uses the word irrational with a different connotation.
    "Lacking all rational direction?"

    "then there is tert Fe that will go apeshit crazy pretty easily when annoyed"
    Will all ENTPs do that?

  5. #165
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    There's a reason why the movies began to suck more and more as they progressed.
    Because you didn't agree with them anymore? Because they no longer gave you a reason to think you were better than others, or had special knowledge that they didn't?

    Or because it was impossible to hide the suckiness of Keanu Reeves' acting over three movies?

  6. #166
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mkenya View Post
    I can define it however I choose to define it. For the sake of conversation...possession of a vagina. It's an incomplete definition..but that conversation just boils down to semantics..

    My point is..lack of evidence is not evidence.

    Lack of evidence can't be a reason to make a positive claim.

    I think this is actually a fallacy..let me look it up..it probably explains what I'm trying to say a lot better.
    It's okay. I was being whimsical.

    In general, I already agree with you that lack of evidence can't be a reason to make a positive claim, it can only be a circumstantial case.

    But okay, let's look at it again for a second:
    So yes..it is illogical to believe something is true just because it can't be proven false.
    It is illogical for someone to believe I am a girl just because he or she can't prove I am not a girl.
    It is illogical for someone to believe that there is a god just because he or she can't prove that there isn't one.
    How one defines "girl" could provide quantifiable evidence that you are indeed a girl.
    If the definition of girl is merely "someone with XX sex chromosomes" (the validity of which can be argued elsewhere, this is just an example), then all one has to do is get the desired data and make a determination. It's plausible with that definition to decide if you are indeed a girl.

    "God" is far more nebulous, especially considering how the more quantifiable something or someone is, the less likely we'll see them as a god. One can hedge the definition of "god" to be more quantifiable, but then run the risk of alienating listeners who recognize the definition as the sham it likely is.

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Because you didn't agree with them anymore? Because they no longer gave you a reason to think you were better than others, or had special knowledge that they didn't?
    Matrix 1 was a real great "Christian-laden" story. A lot of allegory line up with the basic Christian philosophy.

    Matrix 2 & 3 began to deviate from that.
    The focus of 2 was "cause and effect / casuality / determinism."
    The focus of 3 was essentially "balance/cycles."

    I can see why a Christian might not be able to identify as much with 2 and 3, although conceptually I very much liked all the movies.

    Or because it was impossible to hide the suckiness of Keanu Reeves' acting over three movies?
    Well, my dissatisfactions with #2 & #3 did center around (a) Keanu Reeve's crappy acting ability and (b) in #3, the cut-and-dried closure/cut-scenes of the story, plus the cheesy Ewok "OMG we're all saved let's gush" ending.

    let's face it, Christianity is linear in how the story is typically told today by the conservatives. There is a beginning, there is an ending, and everything is about following the through-line and reaching the happy ending. Balance? there is no balance. The world was good and supposed to be that way; then the world turned bad, and we have to restore the world to good.

    The Matrix is far more eastern, with its overriding deterministic elements, the continual recycling/rebirth concept, and the need for good and evil to balance since they are just part of the same whole.... although I still think it merges those elements with Christian-style elements such as sacrifice / giving up control / accepting one's fate out of faith, etc. There were still many things i could identify with, Christianity-wise, in the latter two.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #167
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guesswho View Post
    I do not understand.

    1. What does being Ne dominant mean?
    2. What does Ne being irrational mean?

    Does being governed by a irrational function make me irrational? Why is it irrational? Because it is non linear and processes everything without priority?

    Saying I am an ENTP is incorrect.
    Saying I have an ENTP preference is correct.

    What is the difference?
    Ne dominant means that you have strongest preference to use Ne from all functions.

    read the quote from jungs psychological types and other stuff from last post i posted and you should understand why P functions are irrational.

    saying that you are an ENTP is correct, because ENTP is defined by having strongest preference to use Ne and second strongest using Ti.

    saying that you have preference for ENTP means that you prefer having ENTP as SO or that you prefer them as friends, or you prefer working with them or what ever. you dont prefer to be an ENTP, you are an ENTP because you prefer Ne and Ti, but Ne over Ti.

    Quote Originally Posted by guesswho View Post
    In the second case fluctuation is possible so I prefer Extraversion, but I am not 100% extraverted. Therefor I will also swtich to introversion, but it won't last as long as extraversion, and maybe it will not be equally enjoyable. (just because I have a 55%-60% preference towards extraversion, it does not mean that the rest of 40%-45% introversion is non existent)
    I find it hard to believe that a person with a specific type preference, has the same dominant function all the time.

    So in other words, just because I don't prefer Ti over Ne, it does not necessarily mean that I do not use it as primary.

    But this still makes me prefer an irrational function, and I have difficulty understanding why it's considered irrational.

    The only answer I found is that Jung uses the word irrational with a different connotation.
    "Lacking all rational direction?"

    "then there is tert Fe that will go apeshit crazy pretty easily when annoyed"
    Will all ENTPs do that?
    Everyone uses extraverted and introverted functions, so ofc you use introverted functions also, even those who score 100% E does.

    you have primary preference for Ne, but ofc you can use it primarily on some specific things.

    you are not an irrational function, you just prefer P function(that jung says being irrational, but having a bit different meaning for irrationa, than what irrational is considered in normal speech) over J function. read my last post to understand why it is considered as irrational function and what irrational function means.

    the function lacks all rational direction, because it doesent reason, but ENTP is capable of reasoning with other functions. ENTPs just dont reason with rational function as much as INTP or INFP does. but naturally there are differences on people, like some INTP might score(from scale 0-100) only 30 Ti and ENTP might score 40 Ti, this means that the ENTP has stronger Ti than the INTP, but the ENTP has stronger Ne than Ti. It can even be like 40 Ti and 41 Ne, that would mean that the ENTP has balanced use for Ne and Ti, but because Ne is higher, he will be typed as ENTP, even tho his Ti is high also. this would mean that the ENTP with 41 Ne and 40 Ti would reason his irrational(irrational in jungs term) intuitions more than ENTP with 50 Ne and 30 Ti for example.

    Not all ENTPs are easily annoyed to go into irrational rage mode, but generally they go in it easier than INTP for example, due to tert Fe.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  8. #168
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    It sounds to me like you consider the concept of divine revelation an absurdity.
    I do.

    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    Do you consider it absurd that a person may know somebody you don't, who told them something which you don't know?
    No.

    Quote Originally Posted by freeeekyyy View Post
    Do you believe there's nobody in Argentina named Robert because you haven't met him?
    No.

  9. #169
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samvega View Post
    6 people have responded thus far saying they're ENTP and serious about Christianity yet not a single one has posted a comment.

    I wasn't trying to start a faith debate as much as I was trying to find a Christian ENTP who didn't mind having a conversation on the topic. Hell, I'll take any Ne dom as my main question relates to Ne and faith.
    There was one. If you look back to the third page, Nerdgirl responded and said she's a Christian ENTP.
    You lose.

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  10. #170
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    Ne is considered irrational because it isn't used for judgement.
    Yes, makes perfect sense.

    I don't know why I started rambling unrelated things.

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