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View Poll Results: What is your view on religion as an ENTP?

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  • I am Christian and very serious about it

    14 29.79%
  • I'm Christian...whateva

    1 2.13%
  • I was raised Christian and came to my senses

    13 27.66%
  • Christians freak me the funk out, stay away!

    4 8.51%
  • I'm down with the Buddha

    5 10.64%
  • I'm Muslim

    1 2.13%
  • Judaism is my thing

    3 6.38%
  • Athists are better lovers

    8 17.02%
  • Agnostics are fearless lovers

    12 25.53%
  • Dude, what the hell, you forgot mine!

    5 10.64%
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  1. #131
    Senior Member Perch420's Avatar
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    Not really. Stalin was considered a genius and was given enormous respect, but he was never deified a la Kim Jung Il or his father. Why I even brought up the Soviet Union was that its people were driven towards a goal by the government. They didn't have to make their own decisions, or at least any significant ones. Likewise, people flock towards religion because it offers a sense of purpose to their lives.

  2. #132
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perch420 View Post
    People want to believe in something higher than themselves because they're weak and can't handle the idea of being the arbiter of their own fate. Why were most people in the Soviet Union atheists even though all people share the desire to be part of something greater? Because instead of having the goal to pray to Jesus and go to heaven, they had to goal to work hard and contribute to the community. Everything was planned out for them in advance; they weren't in charge of their own path in life. The majority of people want security and want a cushion to protect them from the meaninglessness and arbitrariness of life. It's the minority that accepts the universe as it is and makes something out of it instead of living in delusion that make an impact in the world.

    And the reason you "felt" ghosts was because, like Dawkins said, the human mind is very susceptible to delusion. That's it.
    So wouldn't the issue be more about human weakness than religion? Even if you manage to get rid of religion, you still have the issue of human weakness finding something else to cling to. The past 200-300 years bears this out.

  3. #133
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Well, one can make it sound nice: every joy you feel is a tiny touch of god; but it still baffles me that such an explanation should satisfy you.
    You're not getting it. It's not the explanation that satisfies me. It is God himself.

    Either that or I'm delusional. In which case you shouldn't be baffled by anything i say or do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    O, I see. The crux remains that you have not become a christian but were raised a christian. You presuppose god, do you not? Or are you really saying that god has given you this second pair of glasses?
    I believe God gave me a second pair of glasses. But, because I was raised by parents with these same glasses it's hard to determine at which point I saw things through my own eyes and not theirs.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    If so, was his earthly form that of a book; and if it was a book, why do you not believe in Hobbits as well?
    First of all, I do believe in hobbits and I have every intention to turn into one.

    There's no reason why God's use of a certain medium for communication would render all other uses of the medium authoritative. It is not the medium that is authoritative it is the use of the medium by God. Tolkien was not God nor was he divinely inspired by God.

    Quote Originally Posted by Perch420 View Post
    Morality doesn't need religion. Do you think before Jesus, people were running around raping and skinning each other?
    Well... i mean... they were... and they still are with maybe less skinning.

    But, my point is that you may act morally, but there is no reason to do so if morality is always evolving.

    Rapists and murderers may be immoral or maybe they are just ahead of their time.


    Quote Originally Posted by Perch420 View Post
    Morality is biologically ingrained into people to preserve the human race. That doesn't mean it has no logical basis, though. All living beings are irreconcilably interconnected, so one living being suffering causes all living beings to suffer. It would be logical, therefore, to minimize suffering in the world.
    No, logic is not the basis. The basic presumption is that preservation of the human race is good. There is nothing logical or illogical about that. It is just a value judgement.

    But, in your framework that value judgement has no basis in objective reality therefore it's really just a preference.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Okay. I can buy that explanation far better than the other.

    (Although if you run into someone who actually knows their detailed history and/or archaeology, and throw in a textual critic or three who can chart inherent patterns of evolution with the OT, I think things will get really interesting.)
    Well yes, it's rare for me to run into someone on the nets that is that informed.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  4. #134
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    If Stalin wasn't considered a God, I'm sure Lenin was.

    One does not break free from the need with a substitute, because it's just a replacement.

  5. #135
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perch420 View Post
    And the reason you "felt" ghosts was because, like Dawkins said, the human mind is very susceptible to delusion. That's it.
    How can I form a delusion about something I knew nothing about?
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  6. #136
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino View Post
    How can I form a delusion about something I knew nothing about?
    Well I am fantasizing about you every night
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  7. #137
    Senior Member Perch420's Avatar
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    Not really. Secular humanism can fulfill that role much better. People's sense of meaning should come from the fact that they are part of the human race and their purpose should be to improve its condition. I used to be somewhat religious when I was a kid but nothing that I experienced inspired me anywhere close to how Carl Sagan and other humanists did.

  8. #138
    Senior Member Perch420's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino View Post
    How can I form a delusion about something I knew nothing about?
    You imagined something that wasn't there.

  9. #139
    Senior Member Perch420's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guesswho View Post
    If Stalin wasn't considered a God, I'm sure Lenin was.

    One does not break free from the need with a substitute, because it's just a replacement.
    No, he wasn't. My parents were born in the Soviet Union so I have on pretty good authority that, while Lenin was definitely idealized and respected, he was never assigned any supernatural abilities or any other traits that would portray him as anything but an intelligent and well-meaning leader.

  10. #140
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    Define "girl"?
    I can define it however I choose to define it. For the sake of conversation...possession of a vagina. It's an incomplete definition..but that conversation just boils down to semantics..

    My point is..lack of evidence is not evidence.

    Lack of evidence can't be a reason to make a positive claim.

    I think this is actually a fallacy..let me look it up..it probably explains what I'm trying to say a lot better.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

    Argument from ignorance, also known as argumentum ad ignorantiam or appeal to ignorance, is an informal logical fallacy. It asserts that a proposition is necessarily true because it has not been proven false (or vice versa). This represents a type of false dichotomy in that it excludes a third option, which is: there is insufficient investigation and therefore insufficient information to "prove" the proposition to be either true or false. Nor does it allow the admission that the choices may in fact not be two (true or false), but may be as many as four; with (3) being unknown between true or false; and (4) being unknowable (among the first three). And finally, any action taken, based upon such a pseudo "proof" is fallaciously valid, that is, it is being asserted to be valid based upon a fallacy.[1] In debates, appeals to ignorance are sometimes used to shift the burden of proof.
    So yes..it is illogical to believe something is true just because it can't be proven false.
    It is illogical for someone to believe I am a girl just because he or she can't prove I am not a girl.
    It is illogical for someone to believe that there is a god just because he or she can't prove that there isn't one.

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