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View Poll Results: What is your view on religion as an ENTP?

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  • I am Christian and very serious about it

    14 29.79%
  • I'm Christian...whateva

    1 2.13%
  • I was raised Christian and came to my senses

    13 27.66%
  • Christians freak me the funk out, stay away!

    4 8.51%
  • I'm down with the Buddha

    5 10.64%
  • I'm Muslim

    1 2.13%
  • Judaism is my thing

    3 6.38%
  • Athists are better lovers

    8 17.02%
  • Agnostics are fearless lovers

    12 25.53%
  • Dude, what the hell, you forgot mine!

    5 10.64%
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  1. #111
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EcK View Post
    Dualistic and so, unsubstanciated. Dualism didn't make sense when Descartes first applied his poor talents at philosophy to try to argue its case and it makes even less sense now.
    LOL, I forgot how much you despised Descartes. Remind me to plan a Descartes Christmas for you. *tugs your ears*

    Real faith sounds pretty but as far as we know it's heavily based on "evolutionary artifacts" such as the "god spot" then there's no meaningful difference. (yes beef, i'm talking in relative terms and assuming it extremely unlikely that domino has access to any future repository of knowledge I don't have access to nor know of)
    I CAN FLY!!
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  2. #112
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samvega View Post
    If I meet an ENTP [or intuitive for that matter] I normally commence with the Christian bashing assuming there's no way on earth they could be one. Likewise, if I meet a sensor I assume they are and proceed with caution.

    Either you're wrong or I'm not a sensor.

  3. #113
    the Dark Prophet of Kualu
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    Quote Originally Posted by guesswho View Post
    What do you mean what does genetics have to do with this? It has everything to do with this. Our behavior conditions our biology, and in the same time, our biology conditions our behavior (therefor conditions our will, since our will is dependent on our view on reality) It's perfectly symmetrical and makes perfect sense to me.
    Well, let's begin with saying that I do understand where you are coming from but it's inconsistent, for me, none the less. I wonder what free will constitutes for you?
    Whether or not one decides that limited options means I cannot choose from all the options and thus cannot consider myself having free will is odd. I have 100% free will from what I am aware of, whether some decisions sometimes may feel harder than others.

    Yes, I have behavioral patterns and some of them are possibly and quite probably outside of my reach that I am unaware of; the ones I do have a sense of awareness however, imo, could only be the options that are open and thus what defines my free will. Then again, some may choose to define this as the illusion of free will and whether this or that is true, I cannot say and I'll never speak of.


    I'm not sure I manage to convey what I mean. If it's still unclear, I'll sit down and think and try to share it differently but if it is not and you plainly just do not agree, then I would love to be picked to pieces.


    Ok. Hold your horses. I guess I created foundations for what a human is without allowing it to be known and did not speak of free will as something independent from being human. Now, I agree that as the essence of the idea of free will is, well, ideal and most probably not correct but, with the mind in hand seeing that which reward systems are in existence... You probably catch the rest anyway.


    This may sound odd but for an example: A man is almost asleep but makes a conscious decision to stay awake but in the end he falls asleep without his own permission. Would you say this is a part of what you are saying? Yes, it is absurd.


    Or maybe I'm just spinning out into space. lol
    Open for interpretation.
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  4. #114
    Senior Member Perch420's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guesswho View Post
    There is no proof that the universe was not created. Therefor it is not entirely illogical for one to believe the universe was created.
    Ok, but it is illogical to think that Jesus is going to fly on a chariot and save the world from Satan.

  5. #115
    man-made neptunesnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perch420 View Post
    There's a reason to believe in a better tommorow; the fact that human progress has been increasing exponentially over the last few hundred years. There's no reason whatsoever to believe in god.
    Alright, you Enlightenment idealist you, didn't World War I debunk this myth of "natural" human progression (of things getting better every day in every way)?

  6. #116
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Divine intervention. At least that's what I believe.
    Well, one can make it sound nice: every joy you feel is a tiny touch of god; but it still baffles me that such an explanation should satisfy you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    My glasses may limit my ability to see God in the sky... But, if God is in the sky he is not limited and can descend and give a new pair of glasses.
    O, I see. The crux remains that you have not become a christian but were raised a christian. You presuppose god, do you not? Or are you really saying that god has given you this second pair of glasses? If so, was his earthly form that of a book; and if it was a book, why do you not believe in Hobbits as well?

  7. #117
    Senior Member Perch420's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Yes, but without any moral weight behind the suffering, who cares?
    Morality doesn't need religion. Do you think before Jesus, people were running around raping and skinning each other? The ancient Babylonians and Sumerians were more civil and humane than Christian Europe thousands of years before the latter came into play.

    Morality is biologically ingrained into people to preserve the human race. That doesn't mean it has no logical basis, though. All living beings are irreconcilably interconnected, so one living being suffering causes all living beings to suffer. It would be logical, therefore, to minimize suffering in the world.

  8. #118
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    I have faith that it is perfectly consistent.
    I believe my current understanding is mostly consistent.
    Okay. I can buy that explanation far better than the other.

    (Although if you run into someone who actually knows their detailed history and/or archaeology, and throw in a textual critic or three who can chart inherent patterns of evolution with the OT, I think things will get really interesting.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mkenya View Post
    There is no proof that I am not a girl..therefore it is not entirely illogical for one to believe that...
    Define "girl"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perch420 View Post
    Morality doesn't need religion. Do you think before Jesus, people were running around raping and skinning each other?
    When were the Aztecs around again?

    All you have to do is read the OT (before Jesus) and the social interactions include rape of both genders, incest, murder, slavery, stoning, fire sacrifice, infanticide, adultery... The entire OT is saturated with it, and not all of it was attributed to the "bad guys" against Israel. Israel itself is represented quite darkly (and with understanding of its own evils) in its own texts.

    Cultural myths were full of incest, murder, intrigue, consuming of one's foes, cutting up gods and scattering their pieces. Norse myth, Greek myth, Egyptian myth, Sumerian myth, etc. I mean, I could research all of this to list example after example. If things such as these are embodied in the myths of a culture, what does it say about the culture? I doubt that the Babylonians and Sumerians, despite having an extensive recorded ethical code, didn't have their own share of problems.

    All living beings are irreconcilably interconnected, so one living being suffering causes all living beings to suffer. It would be logical, therefore, to minimize suffering in the world.
    I agree with that.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #119
    Senior Member Perch420's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neptunesnet View Post
    Alright, you Enlightenment idealist you, didn't World War I debunk this myth of "natural" human progression (of things getting better every day in every way)?
    How so? WWI was fought because vestigial monarchies were unable to deal with the dawn of a new century. WW2 was fought because totalitarianism and vestigial tribalism took control of a population. Both of those things are almost nonexistant today. If anything, this just strengthens my point; that the human race learns from its mistakes and changes the world accordingly.

  10. #120
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perch420 View Post
    There is no "god spot" in the brain.
    Tell that to Scientific American.

    There are several regions involved. No *one* god spot.

    Religion was an early attempt by humans to make sense of the world around them. Almost all ancient cultures had some sort of religious belief, but this isn't because humans are predisposed to religion; it's because humans are predisposed to ask "why?". With science and reason at our disposal, we don't have to make things up to explain the world around us. We don't need religion any more.
    That's an opinion only until it's proven concretely. Based on logic steps, correct? Moving from hypothetical to theory to hard proof.

    I disagree on the "why". That's not the only reason for believing in something higher than oneself. It may push people to assign "God" to what they themselves cannot explain but we're hardly living in times where schizophrenia is caused by goblins or "humors" anymore.

    When I was living in rural Ireland, there was a mystical pall that hung over the place. It wasn't in my mind. The dead die but they don't leave.

    In my own home in the States, I found the spot on the floor where my grandmother died even though I had never been told it was there. It was cold and a chill passed through me whenever I walked over it. I asked my mother and she confirmed it as the spot where my grandmother died years before I was born. I would press someone to explain that to me in scientific terms.
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