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[INTP] INTP after breakup

INTP

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Yes, emotional stability will influence it. You cannot just counter with "not necessarily." Please provide an argument.

Emotional stability will help to determine if a person can move on from a relationship, just as personality type will help to enable some people to more quickly move on from a failed relationship than others. They are both factors that must be taken into account. If a person is unstable, has self confidence issues, or anything emotionally "wrong" with them, it is likely that they will dwell on everything that went wrong for as long as it takes them to get over the issue, regardless of the fact they might be INTP or ESFJ. Someone with their priorities sorted and self confidence out will understand how to move on, even if they still happen to have feelings for the person. Emotional instability does not discriminate by type; anyone can be afflicted.

An INTP with self confidence and few emotional problems will be more likely to move on from a relationship than an INTP with an inferiority complex, no matter the depth of their feelings. This usually holds true for every personality type.

Word! d:D/-<
 

WhyINTP

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As I understand the INTP, once it's over, it's over. ....

I can't help but fear that he's already forgotten all about me, and, thus, isn't being open-minded. I also can't help but fear that if he IS still thinking of me, he's intentionally squashing all of his feelings and focusing on "bad" things so as to get over me. Do you suppose this is accurate? Dare I write him an email reminder? Advice?

PS - I HIGHLY doubt he will date anyone new. He fits the mold of a "recluse". And I love him!

Sorry for the bump, but I'm hoping to contribute.

I can tell from my own experience, even if we [INTPs] cut the ties, we revisit memories to find out where the problem occurred. The past, when we care, is crystallized like a snapshot of reality, much like that movie Source Code. We keep digging until we find an elegant answer to why the relationship failed. It is possible he thinks of you, but not just the good bits only.

Infact even if he contacts you, internally it might be an experiment to collect data to test his theories about why you two are not together. He'll reach out, hear your side of the story, and retreat to process data. You can trap him a few times by asking for help about problems in your life, but he'll use it to collect more data and test more of his theories on you. It may become a roller coaster ride because you'll interpret it as a sign of interest at times, but it isn't.

Yes, its over because its not so much about feelings but principles and consistency.

About being a recluse, we are careful who we let into our heart because it is such a huge mental investment to get to know someone. To find out why someone makes certain decisions, why they act a certain way, and whether they have honor/loyalty/coherence is part of the charm. If you're an interesting source of material (most people aren't complex enough for an INTP's taste), then we stay interested until we figure you out and finally make a decision to continue a relationship.

I suspect feelers have it easy because feelings occur spontaneously. For me, I have to understand a person as a way of showing my appreciation and affection. Usually get along very well with INFJs.
 

Sel_48_10

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Hello, I found this thread because I'm looking to understand my INTP-Partner (I'm an INFJ). He's 27, I'm 31 and we've been together 4 years after building a good friendship, and have had an amazing connection on physical, emotional and intellectual levels. We both say, even know, that we have never felt this strongly about anyone else before. Like all relationships do, we've had our share of obstacles but we've always been able to work through them - or so I felt.

He's been in therapy for the last months because of his depression and has identified some problems he has which show themselves in our relationship, like a tendency to be passive and let the other one "take the reins" but then be upset about lack of self-determination and difficulty being upfront if he has the feeling the other person might not take it well. I've been as supportive as I can and have urged him that of course I want him to be authentic to himself and that I in no way want to override him or his wishes (I'm not a dominating person) also because he can then get resentful towards me. I've asked him to let me know how exactly I could help but there's not much I can do. I can't constantly be double-questioning every interaction we have, we both acknowledge that these are very much his issues and thus, the ball in mainly in his court.

Last week, he told me that he wasn't sure about his feelings for me and that he'd often acted like everything was ok in our relationship when he felt it wasn't. This came very much out of the blue for me, not only am I completely devastated but I also feel tricked because I feel that we were doing so well. Apparently he hasn't been working on the aforementioned issues and they grew more overwhelming, to the point that they overshadowed a lot of the positive things in our relationship. From my perspective, it seems like they're blocking his love for me, and because our connection was so strong I have trouble believing that his feelings are just gone, and it's very inviting for me to believe that, were he to make progress on these problems, they wouldn't be standing between us and he'd feel close to me again. He says he definitely hopes that his feelings for me would return but he doesn't know how to make that happen. Obviously this is very painful for me, especially because to me it's self-evident that if something is important to you, you try to make it work, and he doesn't seem to have tried. He was very upset and emotional, saying he has no idea how this could have happened, and that he would have tried sooner if he knew it would've come to this.

We've spent a lot of hours since then talking and crying and trying to hash it out, in which I asked him to be upfront and explicit and he maintains that he is. He says he can't be in a relationship where he's not sure about his feelings and has said he feels like he has two options, either a break or a break-up, but that he's afraid he would regret it because he feels that we might still make it. There is definitely still a lot of affection and intimacy there, which gives me the impression that not all is lost. He admits that he has not seriously considered how a break-up would affect him and impact his life, and it was incredibly painful for both of us when we discussed how it might be. He says he doesn't know what to do, and I imagine he feels like none of the options look easy or more attractive than the other, stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I'm still under shock, the idea I had about our relationship can't be dismantled after a few days. The idea of not being with him is so horrible it's repellant, I'm numb and can't wrap my head around it. Rationally though, I know he is putting me through a shitty situation, that he was being cowardly by only telling me once he felt it was too late, and that I'm suffering a lot because of his failures to get himself into order. I have to ask myself if this is a relationship I want to be in - and the answer has always been yes because I was convinced it was worth the effort. I know I can't be committed for both of us but I love him so much I can't leave as long as there is still a chance we might make it. I know I can't force his love and perhaps I'm seeing this all wrong, but as an INFJ, I'm used to building on my intuition.

Both of us are confused and hurting and don't know what to do or to think. Any perspective would be appreciated.
 
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I could only advise you two to see a couple therapist together. When things get complicate, and both feel powerless facing a situation, it is an emergency to find a solution with a professional

who will be able to listen carefully each "side" and feelings, in an objective and non judgemental way. Of course this is worth it if both of you do love each other but feel stuck in a dead-end.

Be brave and take a quick decision before it becomes too late. :hug:
 

Obfuscate

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I could only advise you two to see a couple therapist together. When things get complicate, and both feel powerless facing a situation, it is an emergency to find a solution with a professional

who will be able to listen carefully each "side" and feelings, in an objective and non judgemental way. Of course this is worth it if both of you do love each other but feel stuck in a dead-end.

Be brave and take a quick decision before it becomes too late. :hug:

-for friendzone
it is hard to say how much sel's partner is like me, but i would assume that resistance to counseling would be the most natural response... after typing that sentence i recalled that he is already in therapy... your advice isn't bad, and i don't mean to appear critical... i will say that emergency feels like an extreme term...

-for sel
if you do bring it up, i would enter the subject carefully, and leave plenty of time for him to consider it without pushing for a response... resistance is the most common response from intp's to questions with a timer... given that he feels he has an unhealthy habit of letting you run the show, it might be cathartic for him to feel fully in control of the decision... i think that if he is open to the line of questioning, finding out how his current therapy is going could be illuminating... achieving success with counseling/ is a reasonable basis for comparison if either of you feel unsure... because of the nature of therapy, asking for unsolicited details may cause him to "lock up"... you know him better than i can, use your best judgement and tread lightly...

a friend of mine told me this about his practice (i am paraphrasing)... "i settled on couples counseling because it has the highest chance of success... with children you can't solve the problems because they want you to fix the child, but most often it is the parents who have unhealthy thoughts and behaviors... in one on one therapy, you only hear one side of the story.. most often that story portrays the individual in the most comfortable light and contains lies of omission and fact (even if they don't know it)... when you are working with a couple they are both involved in with situation intimately enough to call bullshit and hold each other accountable... they may not always come to terms, but at least you are able to confront the real issues..." (in case his level of education is important to you, i will mention he is a psychologist )

He's been in therapy for the last months because of his depression and has identified some problems he has which show themselves in our relationship, like a tendency to be passive and let the other one "take the reins" but then be upset about lack of self-determination and difficulty being upfront if he has the feeling the other person might not take it well. I've been as supportive as I can and have urged him that of course I want him to be authentic to himself and that I in no way want to override him or his wishes (I'm not a dominating person) also because he can then get resentful towards me. I've asked him to let me know how exactly I could help but there's not much I can do. I can't constantly be double-questioning every interaction we have, we both acknowledge that these are very much his issues and thus, the ball in mainly in his court.

the way you responded to this was in good form... infj's tend to be lovely and considerate women (in my experience)... i would like to point out that your last sentence rings of truth... try to keep that in mind, and only analyze these things when it is healthy for you to do so...

Last week, he told me that he wasn't sure about his feelings for me and that he'd often acted like everything was ok in our relationship when he felt it wasn't. This came very much out of the blue for me, not only am I completely devastated but I also feel tricked because I feel that we were doing so well. Apparently he hasn't been working on the aforementioned issues and they grew more overwhelming, to the point that they overshadowed a lot of the positive things in our relationship. From my perspective, it seems like they're blocking his love for me, and because our connection was so strong I have trouble believing that his feelings are just gone, and it's very inviting for me to believe that, were he to make progress on these problems, they wouldn't be standing between us and he'd feel close to me again. He says he definitely hopes that his feelings for me would return but he doesn't know how to make that happen. Obviously this is very painful for me, especially because to me it's self-evident that if something is important to you, you try to make it work, and he doesn't seem to have tried. He was very upset and emotional, saying he has no idea how this could have happened, and that he would have tried sooner if he knew it would've come to this.

= ( i doubt he thought of it as lying to you... while it may have been pain avoidance, i would assume that he framed it in his mind as "giving it all a fair shot" or "i can't deal with this right now, because {insert an excuse that sounded reasonable at the time}"... the fact that he bothered with counseling would suggest to me that it was done out of love... these behaviors do block your love, but the source of not addressing the issues may very well have been deference to your feelings... these small things didn't just grow over night, and their current form doesn't indicate his initial intentions clearly...

We've spent a lot of hours since then talking and crying and trying to hash it out, in which I asked him to be upfront and explicit and he maintains that he is. He says he can't be in a relationship where he's not sure about his feelings and has said he feels like he has two options, either a break or a break-up, but that he's afraid he would regret it because he feels that we might still make it. There is definitely still a lot of affection and intimacy there, which gives me the impression that not all is lost. He admits that he has not seriously considered how a break-up would affect him and impact his life, and it was incredibly painful for both of us when we discussed how it might be. He says he doesn't know what to do, and I imagine he feels like none of the options look easy or more attractive than the other, stuck between a rock and a hard place.

the fact that he is bringing this to your attention instead of surprising you with a break up feels like a "good" sign (good is a rather subjective word)... if he knew things were truly beyond hope he would have just ended it... as long as you both feel like their is hope of improvement, there is... your last sentence feels entirely accurate; though without hearing what he had to say, i am less than confident in saying so...

I'm still under shock, the idea I had about our relationship can't be dismantled after a few days. The idea of not being with him is so horrible it's repellant, I'm numb and can't wrap my head around it. Rationally though, I know he is putting me through a shitty situation, that he was being cowardly by only telling me once he felt it was too late, and that I'm suffering a lot because of his failures to get himself into order. I have to ask myself if this is a relationship I want to be in - and the answer has always been yes because I was convinced it was worth the effort. I know I can't be committed for both of us but I love him so much I can't leave as long as there is still a chance we might make it. I know I can't force his love and perhaps I'm seeing this all wrong, but as an INFJ, I'm used to building on my intuition.

Both of us are confused and hurting and don't know what to do or to think. Any perspective would be appreciated.

infj feelings are overwhelming... anyhow, i hope this is helpful in some small way... i wish you both a healthy outcome, and hope that means you stay together...

post script:

tag or quote me if you desire further input from me...
 
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Obfuscate

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It's up to you. That's only the way I'd feel in this situation. Bon courage !

i feel that interpersonal problems in general don't feel like emergencies... things like heart failure and waking up to your house on fire are the things i use that word for... i am not sure why i bothered to say anything about it...
 

Sel_48_10

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I could only advise you two to see a couple therapist together. When things get complicate, and both feel powerless facing a situation, it is an emergency to find a solution with a professional

who will be able to listen carefully each "side" and feelings, in an objective and non judgemental way. Of course this is worth it if both of you do love each other but feel stuck in a dead-end.

Be brave and take a quick decision before it becomes too late. :hug:

Thank you for your comment! You're quite right, I'd actually proposed that to him before, knowing full well he would reject it ;) Not only because he takes a long time to ask for help but also because I suspect the idea of having to open up to anther person isn't very appealing to him. This time he said he already has a therapist, which is true. But as competent as my partner's therapist may be, the object of study there isn't our relationship but my partner's issues, so it's not at all the same thing and can't replace couple's therapy, which I agree could be helpful. In any case, it'd be a concrete measure to take instead of passively letting things "happen" (which seems to have been my partner's method of choice).

I'm considering broaching the subject again, as tactfully and non-demanding as possible of course! I know INTPs can get overwhelmed by emotion, be it their own or someone else's, so I hope we can have a calmer, more grounded discussion next time.
 

Sel_48_10

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-for sel
if you do bring it up, i would enter the subject carefully, and leave plenty of time for him to consider it without pushing for a response... resistance is the most common response from intp's to questions with a timer... given that he feels he has an unhealthy habit of letting you run the show, it might be cathartic for him to feel fully in control of the decision... i think that if he is open to the line of questioning, finding out how his current therapy is going could be illuminating... achieving success with counseling/ is a reasonable basis for comparison if either of you feel unsure... because of the nature of therapy, asking for unsolicited details may cause him to "lock up"... you know him better than i can, use your best judgement and tread lightly...

a friend of mine told me this about his practice (i am paraphrasing)... "i settled on couples counseling because it has the highest chance of success... with children you can't solve the problems because they want you to fix the child, but most often it is the parents who have unhealthy thoughts and behaviors... in one on one therapy, you only hear one side of the story.. most often that story portrays the individual in the most comfortable light and contains lies of omission and fact (even if they don't know it)... when you are working with a couple they are both involved in with situation intimately enough to call bullshit and hold each other accountable... they may not always come to terms, but at least you are able to confront the real issues..." (in case his level of education is important to you, i will mention he is a psychologist )

Thank you! You're absolutely accurate that I need to tread lightly and that he needs to feel in control of the decision (even though - or maybe precisely because? - he has so much trouble with decisiveness). I also agree with what your friend says about couple's therapy - he has been quite open with me about how his therapy has been going (I try not to pry so that he won't clam up) and has mentioned himself that his therapist may have a one-sided view of our relationship because generally the discussion focuses more on problems than on all the positive aspects. From what I understood, his therapist seems to be of the opinion that one can't stay in a relationship where one has to question whether the love is there... which is a valid point but IMO seems like a limited view of the situation because he only heard my partner's side of the story! Also since his therapist isn't a couple's therapist, his object of concern is my partner, which is perhaps the reason why a break-up seems like the neatest solution. :(

= ( i doubt he thought of it as lying to you... while it may have been pain avoidance, i would assume that he framed it in his mind as "giving it all a fair shot" or "i can't deal with this right now, because {insert an excuse that sounded reasonable at the time}"... the fact that he bothered with counseling would suggest to me that it was done out of love... these behaviors do block your love, but the source of not addressing the issues may very well have been deference to your feelings... these small things didn't just grow over night, and their current form doesn't indicate his initial intentions clearly...

That makes a lot of sense to me. I feel kind of bad about my reaction, because my emotional whirlwind was probably exactly what he had been dreading since he can't deal with any emotional overload. Perhaps he would have come to me sooner if he felt we could have a calmer discussion about it.. I'm not going to suppress my feelings or censor myself but I do recognize it'd be smarter to meet him halfway next time. Perhaps he'd feel more comfortable opening up if he didn't have to be afraid of being "emotionally steamrolled" so to speak..?


the fact that he is bringing this to your attention instead of surprising you with a break up feels like a "good" sign (good is a rather subjective word)... if he knew things were truly beyond hope he would have just ended it... as long as you both feel like their is hope of improvement, there is... your last sentence feels entirely accurate; though without hearing what he had to say, i am less than confident in saying so...

As long as an INTP is still talking to you, I suppose it's a good sign! As long as he's being honest and not resorting to sugarcoating things, that is... still, thank you for your support!
 

Obfuscate

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Thank you! You're absolutely accurate that I need to tread lightly and that he needs to feel in control of the decision (even though - or maybe precisely because? - he has so much trouble with decisiveness). I also agree with what your friend says about couple's therapy - he has been quite open with me about how his therapy has been going (I try not to pry so that he won't clam up) and has mentioned himself that his therapist may have a one-sided view of our relationship because generally the discussion focuses more on problems than on all the positive aspects. From what I understood, his therapist seems to be of the opinion that one can't stay in a relationship where one has to question whether the love is there... which is a valid point but IMO seems like a limited view of the situation because he only heard my partner's side of the story! Also since his therapist isn't a couple's therapist, his object of concern is my partner, which is perhaps the reason why a break-up seems like the neatest solution. :(

this therapist sounds like a feeler type... analyzing love doesn't mean that a relationship should end; if it did/does it would mean that i should end every relationship at inception... getting an outside opinion from someone you both feel you can trust is a good idea... if your funds allow for it, i would "interview" several candidates for that role and only proceed when you both feel comfortable with the person in question... the belief that the therapist is able to help is the single most important indicator of their ability to do so...

That makes a lot of sense to me. I feel kind of bad about my reaction, because my emotional whirlwind was probably exactly what he had been dreading since he can't deal with any emotional overload. Perhaps he would have come to me sooner if he felt we could have a calmer discussion about it.. I'm not going to suppress my feelings or censor myself but I do recognize it'd be smarter to meet him halfway next time. Perhaps he'd feel more comfortable opening up if he didn't have to be afraid of being "emotionally steamrolled" so to speak..?

if you value his input about his emotions i would think it is important to make the times that he initiates a conversation about them as nonthreatening as you can... when you feel a powerful negative response is the most important time to be vigilant... if you have initiated the conversation (and he doesn't seem to be retreating from it), it might be a better time to address those negative feelings.... i would think it may be preferable (from a results based stand point) to address your feelings when they aren't running the show... when a discussion of emotions is irrational, it can be dis-empowering for intp... emotions as justification can be hard to deal with... talking to him about his personal experiences would give you the best understanding... if you do manage to have a "good discussion", but later use it as "ammunition" it will degrade his faith in the ability to have future interactions on that level...

i have more that i could say, but i think this encompasses a lot...


As long as an INTP is still talking to you, I suppose it's a good sign! As long as he's being honest and not resorting to sugarcoating things, that is... still, thank you for your support!

honest communication of emotion that isn't directly an attack meant to end things is a good sign... saying that honest is "good" in the blanket sense is not something i would do... but yes, everything you have said would make me think that this is going as well as it can...

you are welcome... i have had relationships in which i really wanted an outside voice to say things like this to my partner... that didn't happen, and now i am single...
 
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Thank you for your comment! ........
I know INTPs can get overwhelmed by emotion, be it their own or someone else's, so I hope we can have a calmer, more grounded discussion next time.

You are very welcome. I was wishing only INTP could be overwhelmed by their emotions... things would be much + easier for all the other types :D
 

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[MENTION=29281]Sel_48_10[/MENTION]

feeling that my opinion was probably one sided i requested an analysis from a close infj friend... her two closest friends are intp, and we were together at one point...

me: i got to the end of that thread and there was an infj having trouble with an intp... the problem is current... do you have any advice for her?

infj: Hmm. You gave what appears to be accurate information based on your knowledge and personal perception of your type.
As for her she seems emotionally able to, at least by her statements be able to acknowledge the power and effect her emotional response will have in encouraging or shutting down communication.

me: i am not sure why i am concerned with this, but i am...

infj: You were from your side I think

me: that is why i wanted someone with your perspective (an infj with close connections to intp)

infj: Lol It's all very informative. one moment, while I properly compose my thoughts

infj: In reference to the tread, it is helpful and insightful to have an intp show reasons behind the partners side. Which is more beneficial than fluff. My heart hurts with empathy. From a fluffy feel good position I would give more acknowledgement to her emotional state. And validation of her emotional response.

infj: So this is my one sided response specifically to her as one INFJ to another."

her crafted response is in quotes...

"It sounds as though he has compartmentalized his feelings in a effort to better tolerate and to add personal control to his own emotional pain which can be disheartening for someone more comfortable with identifying and processing feelings. So as to not say that his feelings are gone, it seems they are currently inaccessible, so he may process through the more overwhelming overriding negative emotions of depression. From the position of something being important and fighting to keep it, it seems less that he is maliciously wanting to end a relationship and more seeking to add personal control. If depressed and all feels lost, controlling the easiest emotion or relationship is one of the easiest ways to regain some feelings of control.
As an INFJ this would truly be a crisis worth working through and applying as much effort as one would be able. I can see how your feelings of betrayal manifested as it would be a shock to hear a long term love express a finality to a relationship clearly so valued. Your shock is understandable to me. I admire your ability to acknowledge his emotions and his reaction and potential reaction to your emotional response.
As an INFJ interacting with INTP from my personal experience I would venture to say that it can be challenging at times. You seem to be well aware of how your emotional responses will impact him but there is validation needed to your feelings. It could feel like a one sided effort and it would be easy to feel resentful or invalidated. Consistently being emotional supportive and understanding and not having that given in return in some capacity can be frustrating. Your commitment to this relationship is commendable; your personal effort and love can go a long way. In relationships being of a give and take, mutual understanding and supportive nature an abrupt ending without processing would not seem possible.
Your feelings and desires for your future with this person can only go so far. He has to make the effort and try to meet you in some capacity. Perhaps he is in a place that you currently can not go because he is so enveloped in his own suffering that he can not let you in. Perhaps he wants to push you away to validate that his negative emotions were correct.
Love is worth the effort. Weighing the options, the pros and cons, your time, your life. You can be considerate and loving and supportive forever but don’t tolerate the mishandling of your heart."

---

infj: Seems kind of bitchy now that i reread it.

me:i haven't read it just yet... setting it all up... would you like to add qualifiers? or something?

infj: Lol No. That is what I would say if I was interacting. It's meant to be empowering to her...

me: do you care to provide a(ny) personal examples of interaction before i shoot this off? i included snippets of our conversation about the subject, by the way...

infj: That is fine. Not at this time

me: feel free to review my post.. i can remove anything you don't like...
 

Sel_48_10

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Your response wasn't one sided at all! I was looking to gain more insight into the INTP thought process and you certainly delivered. Of course I'm interested to see what your infj friend would have to say and don't worry, didn't seem bitchy at all! In fact she echoed pretty much what part of me is thinking, which some of my friends have also been saying out of concern for me. You can let her know it was quite empowering :) and that I feel appreciated and validated, which is always great, haha

"Your feelings and desires for your future with this person can only go so far. He has to make the effort and try to meet you in some capacity. Perhaps he is in a place that you currently can not go because he is so enveloped in his own suffering that he can not let you in. Perhaps he wants to push you away to validate that his negative emotions were correct."
...

On point, this is what I need to approach my partner with as tactfully as possible, i.e. lead him to understand that he needs to make an effort without making him feel like it's an obligation I'm forcing on him. He absolutely needs to regain some feeling of control, but the approach I'm hoping he'd chose would involve trying something that he's not sure he can do, and any chance or risk of failure often paralyzes him. A great thinker but not so much of a hands-on guy... and perhaps if he were a bit older, things would be different, seeing how the INTP Fe usually needs some time to develop...

Can I ask you as an INTP how you stand with regards to the whole MBTI thing, how you came to appreciate it, etc.? My partner considers it BS-amateur psychology, I guess because his Ti can't really take it seriously, which is a bit of a shame because there are quite a few resources I think he might benefit from, especially as pertaining to our communication issues.

Again, thank both you and your friend for your perspective and supportive remarks! It's been immeasurably helpful.
 

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Your response wasn't one sided at all! I was looking to gain more insight into the INTP thought process and you certainly delivered. Of course I'm interested to see what your infj friend would have to say and don't worry, didn't seem bitchy at all! In fact she echoed pretty much what part of me is thinking, which some of my friends have also been saying out of concern for me. You can let her know it was quite empowering :) and that I feel appreciated and validated, which is always great, haha

i am glad that you feel i was fair in my assessment; fairness is one of my highest goals... i will be sure to let her know how you feel/felt...

On point, this is what I need to approach my partner with as tactfully as possible, i.e. lead him to understand that he needs to make an effort without making him feel like it's an obligation I'm forcing on him. He absolutely needs to regain some feeling of control, but the approach I'm hoping he'd chose would involve trying something that he's not sure he can do, and any chance or risk of failure often paralyzes him. A great thinker but not so much of a hands-on guy... and perhaps if he were a bit older, things would be different, seeing how the INTP Fe usually needs some time to develop...

i said these things in a different way earlier, but i wanted to reiterate... if you need him to consider something in particular, leading questions may be a useful tool... by presenting well thought out questions/options, and deferring to his opinion (when that is fair to you), you will help him become more confident in tackling this problem... presenting the same point from several angles (i.e. possible results, risks vs reward, contrasting perspective) at once will engage his thinking process... when/if you are able to get his thinking started do your best not to interject... the odds of him touching on your preferred outcome on his own are high... by allowing him to state the thought first, you will avoid making it feel "alien" (by which i mean derived from a biased view and therefore requiring unfair scrutiny)... either way, he will (most likely) feel more sure of his views after letting the thoughts passively "digest"...

Can I ask you as an INTP how you stand with regards to the whole MBTI thing, how you came to appreciate it, etc.? My partner considers it BS-amateur psychology, I guess because his Ti can't really take it seriously, which is a bit of a shame because there are quite a few resources I think he might benefit from, especially as pertaining to our communication issues.

he is right... it is BS-amateur psychology... it has more validity than astrology (obviously), but that doesn't mean it is entirely withought value...

here are some links that he may identify with (or may prove useful to you)... i feel that they are the cream of the crop and they are all written by intp's... if he identifies with one/or more of these strongly enough, he may understand what you see in it...

INTP - The INTP Experience
An INTP Profile
INTP Architect | Oddly Developed Types

it took a large number of identified parallels in my own life before i took any of this seriously...

Again, thank both you and your friend for your perspective and supportive remarks! It's been immeasurably helpful.

i believe that i have spent upwards of six hours on this (including time waiting), so your appreciation is well received... your ability to clarify your thoughts, emotions, and thankfulness in such a concise way reminds me strongly of the infj who i "pestered" for you... i think it is my association with the way you say things that must be motivating me (i have been analyzing my purpose in this)...

you are quite welcome; i have enjoyed feeling useful...
 

anticlimatic

Permabanned
Joined
Oct 17, 2013
Messages
3,299
MBTI Type
INTP
Break up.

Get back together.

If you break up again it will be for good.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,187
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
...anyhoo...

I don't have a lot to add right now, I don't feel like I can comment too much on a relationship I haven't witnessed in detail. I just wanted to tell you (Sel) that your opening description of your relationship and your feelings rings true to me, it seems much like what i've seen in my own life and in relationships where INTPs and IFJs were together.

I understand you had some strong emotional responses to the way he handled things (I remember seeing the word "cowardly") and I understand totally why you would use it and feel that way. I just wanted to say that from my end, I totally get why he didn't say anything, it's just really a different approach to life and relationships. And of course i get the issue of his feeling out of control but now he's stuck in a situation where his emotions just aren't there and he doesn't want to live fraudulently... yet at the same time doesn't want to make a huge mistake and losing a relationship that could have worked. IOW, his motivations actually seem pretty positive to me, it's simply that his life experience and relationship savvy isn't up to the task of what he is facing; this is something difficult for him to figure out. Ambivalence is one large problem an INTP might typically face, in relationships or jobs or elsewhere.

I don't know if it would help him to look outside the relationship at life in general -- okay, perhaps he's not sure of his feelings towards you, but he can assess what his expectations were for his "ideal relationship" and what he expects to feel and experience elsewhere. See, right now he just sees that this relationship (and the emotion he experiences) isn't meeting his expectations, but it's possible his expectations haven't yet been calibrated realistically. It's difficult to tell.

I agree with the idea of leading questions. You definitely want to avoid pressuring him; however, he needs to be encouraged to a reasonable amount to engage and share his thoughts. Working through thoughts and feelings rather than avoiding them because there seems to be no solution is a necessity here.

I'm sorry, I'm feeling like I haven't really said much useful. My main goal was just letting you know that this is not a weird problem for both of you to have, it actually sounds pretty par for course for the types and for relationships. It's something that you can both invest in working through, even if it's not clear where it is going right now, rather than a sign that things are doomed. If that makes sense.
 

Noweej

New member
Joined
Aug 24, 2016
Messages
12
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
8w7
I agree with the 1st post of Totenkindly, but it's also different if love was involved for me or not.

Relationships without love :
If I break up, I don't need time to get over it, it's already done. And I'll never come back to the ex or talk to him again.
If he breaks up, I need to know why, even if the guy has no importance, I just want to understand, so if needed, I'll ask again and again until he gives the answer or I discover it.

Relationship with love (really rare, 2 in my life) :
When I broke up, even if it was a decision well thought, better for both of us, it did hurt a lot, because since I loved him, it means that I imagined all my life with him and seeing him sad and all that falling into pieces was certainly hard.
It took about 5 months for me to stop crying about it. We're still friends, I don't regret anything with him and I still think that he's someone really exceptionnal. We were not enough for each other, but I sincerely wish him all the happiness and so does he.
After that break up, I thought I didn't want another relationship or another love, but I met my actual partner ^^'... And all those bloody feelings exploded in me again and at age 31, I still don't know how to handle them, because in love, I always go all in, I can't do it just halfway or so, it's way too difficult to control.
No break up initiated by the man here, so I can't say for now.

Anyway, an ex is always an ex for a good reason, I never break up on a whim, so no need to come back on the decision.
 

Mr Troll

New member
Joined
Dec 7, 2015
Messages
58
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
bs
How a person gets into break up state:
Step #1
Find compatible person
Step #2
Have a date
Step #3
Get into relationship
Step #4
Break up

We have already lost 85 % of INTPs in step #1, 90 % at step #2 and 95 % at step #3. :huh:

OK. This was a speculation. Me as an ENTP have never entered to step #3 (age 30). Still females tend to have good time around me. :thinking:
 

Sel_48_10

New member
Joined
Aug 20, 2016
Messages
8
MBTI Type
INFJ

Haha, I actually stumbled upon this myself around the same time I found this forum, and it was super eye-opening, for me obviously especially the dating and interpreting chapter. I'm not sure if I'll send it to my INTP, he doesn't speak English that well (we are Swiss btw) and it might be hard for him to work through, although I'm quite sure he'd see a lot of himself in it. And the last two chapters could be very helpful, especially because I recall him mentioning that he thinks his habit of subjugating his emotions to his rationality could be at the root of his depression. Thankfully he's working through this with his therapist already...


IOW, his motivations actually seem pretty positive to me, it's simply that his life experience and relationship savvy isn't up to the task of what he is facing; this is something difficult for him to figure out. Ambivalence is one large problem an INTP might typically face, in relationships or jobs or elsewhere.

I don't know if it would help him to look outside the relationship at life in general -- okay, perhaps he's not sure of his feelings towards you, but he can assess what his expectations were for his "ideal relationship" and what he expects to feel and experience elsewhere. See, right now he just sees that this relationship (and the emotion he experiences) isn't meeting his expectations, but it's possible his expectations haven't yet been calibrated realistically. It's difficult to tell.

Thank you for your input! Yes, he struck me as quite overwhelmed with the situation (because his inferior Fe)? I'd agree that the relationship as it is isn't meeting his expectations and while he might have an idea of what he wants, he's unsure of how to get there...

I took everyone's advice with the leading questions, presenting angles, staying patient and letting him come to the conclusions, and it was a much more constructive conversation than the one before. We both remained calm and relatively positive throughout, me especially once I saw that he seemed willing to invest in at least trying to work this through. He's hesitant because he also clearly sees the need to work on himself and is afraid that by focusing on our relationship he could quickly slip back into old habits and mechanisms that would damage himself again. Which is why I personally think at least one or two meetings with a couple's therapist might be helpful, and he said he'd think it over (which is already a lot more than I expected). I'm sure he respects that I made my own needs clear, namely that I can't be trying if he isn't willing to try either, because otherwise there's hardly any hope of success,

We haven't yet exactly worked out how we'd define this next phase but I feel relatively hopeful, relatively because I've been through a lot of ups and downs and feel like I can't really take his word for anything anymore, even though he clarified in the end that he'd been upfront... I still feel wary, as if the next conversation could go in a completely different direction again but I'm trying to stay serene.

Thanks again to everyone for your support!
 
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