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Thread: INTP after breakup

  1. #71
    Senior Member Array RedAmazoneFriendZone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sel_48_10 View Post
    Thank you for your comment! ........
    I know INTPs can get overwhelmed by emotion, be it their own or someone else's, so I hope we can have a calmer, more grounded discussion next time.
    You are very welcome. I was wishing only INTP could be overwhelmed by their emotions... things would be much + easier for all the other types
    ALL THAT WE SEE OR SEEM TO BE IS BUT A DREAM WITHIN A DREAM
    Likes Sel_48_10 liked this post

  2. #72
    Egad! No bondage! Array Obfuscate's Avatar
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    @Sel_48_10

    feeling that my opinion was probably one sided i requested an analysis from a close infj friend... her two closest friends are intp, and we were together at one point...

    me: i got to the end of that thread and there was an infj having trouble with an intp... the problem is current... do you have any advice for her?

    infj: Hmm. You gave what appears to be accurate information based on your knowledge and personal perception of your type.
    As for her she seems emotionally able to, at least by her statements be able to acknowledge the power and effect her emotional response will have in encouraging or shutting down communication.

    me: i am not sure why i am concerned with this, but i am...

    infj: You were from your side I think

    me: that is why i wanted someone with your perspective (an infj with close connections to intp)

    infj: Lol It's all very informative. one moment, while I properly compose my thoughts

    infj: In reference to the tread, it is helpful and insightful to have an intp show reasons behind the partners side. Which is more beneficial than fluff. My heart hurts with empathy. From a fluffy feel good position I would give more acknowledgement to her emotional state. And validation of her emotional response.

    infj: So this is my one sided response specifically to her as one INFJ to another."

    her crafted response is in quotes...

    "It sounds as though he has compartmentalized his feelings in a effort to better tolerate and to add personal control to his own emotional pain which can be disheartening for someone more comfortable with identifying and processing feelings. So as to not say that his feelings are gone, it seems they are currently inaccessible, so he may process through the more overwhelming overriding negative emotions of depression. From the position of something being important and fighting to keep it, it seems less that he is maliciously wanting to end a relationship and more seeking to add personal control. If depressed and all feels lost, controlling the easiest emotion or relationship is one of the easiest ways to regain some feelings of control.
    As an INFJ this would truly be a crisis worth working through and applying as much effort as one would be able. I can see how your feelings of betrayal manifested as it would be a shock to hear a long term love express a finality to a relationship clearly so valued. Your shock is understandable to me. I admire your ability to acknowledge his emotions and his reaction and potential reaction to your emotional response.
    As an INFJ interacting with INTP from my personal experience I would venture to say that it can be challenging at times. You seem to be well aware of how your emotional responses will impact him but there is validation needed to your feelings. It could feel like a one sided effort and it would be easy to feel resentful or invalidated. Consistently being emotional supportive and understanding and not having that given in return in some capacity can be frustrating. Your commitment to this relationship is commendable; your personal effort and love can go a long way. In relationships being of a give and take, mutual understanding and supportive nature an abrupt ending without processing would not seem possible.
    Your feelings and desires for your future with this person can only go so far. He has to make the effort and try to meet you in some capacity. Perhaps he is in a place that you currently can not go because he is so enveloped in his own suffering that he can not let you in. Perhaps he wants to push you away to validate that his negative emotions were correct.
    Love is worth the effort. Weighing the options, the pros and cons, your time, your life. You can be considerate and loving and supportive forever but don’t tolerate the mishandling of your heart."

    ---

    infj: Seems kind of bitchy now that i reread it.

    me:i haven't read it just yet... setting it all up... would you like to add qualifiers? or something?

    infj: Lol No. That is what I would say if I was interacting. It's meant to be empowering to her...

    me: do you care to provide a(ny) personal examples of interaction before i shoot this off? i included snippets of our conversation about the subject, by the way...

    infj: That is fine. Not at this time

    me: feel free to review my post.. i can remove anything you don't like...

  3. #73
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    Your response wasn't one sided at all! I was looking to gain more insight into the INTP thought process and you certainly delivered. Of course I'm interested to see what your infj friend would have to say and don't worry, didn't seem bitchy at all! In fact she echoed pretty much what part of me is thinking, which some of my friends have also been saying out of concern for me. You can let her know it was quite empowering and that I feel appreciated and validated, which is always great, haha

    Quote Originally Posted by Obfuscate View Post
    "Your feelings and desires for your future with this person can only go so far. He has to make the effort and try to meet you in some capacity. Perhaps he is in a place that you currently can not go because he is so enveloped in his own suffering that he can not let you in. Perhaps he wants to push you away to validate that his negative emotions were correct."
    ...
    On point, this is what I need to approach my partner with as tactfully as possible, i.e. lead him to understand that he needs to make an effort without making him feel like it's an obligation I'm forcing on him. He absolutely needs to regain some feeling of control, but the approach I'm hoping he'd chose would involve trying something that he's not sure he can do, and any chance or risk of failure often paralyzes him. A great thinker but not so much of a hands-on guy... and perhaps if he were a bit older, things would be different, seeing how the INTP Fe usually needs some time to develop...

    Can I ask you as an INTP how you stand with regards to the whole MBTI thing, how you came to appreciate it, etc.? My partner considers it BS-amateur psychology, I guess because his Ti can't really take it seriously, which is a bit of a shame because there are quite a few resources I think he might benefit from, especially as pertaining to our communication issues.

    Again, thank both you and your friend for your perspective and supportive remarks! It's been immeasurably helpful.

  4. #74
    Egad! No bondage! Array Obfuscate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sel_48_10 View Post
    Your response wasn't one sided at all! I was looking to gain more insight into the INTP thought process and you certainly delivered. Of course I'm interested to see what your infj friend would have to say and don't worry, didn't seem bitchy at all! In fact she echoed pretty much what part of me is thinking, which some of my friends have also been saying out of concern for me. You can let her know it was quite empowering and that I feel appreciated and validated, which is always great, haha
    i am glad that you feel i was fair in my assessment; fairness is one of my highest goals... i will be sure to let her know how you feel/felt...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sel_48_10 View Post
    On point, this is what I need to approach my partner with as tactfully as possible, i.e. lead him to understand that he needs to make an effort without making him feel like it's an obligation I'm forcing on him. He absolutely needs to regain some feeling of control, but the approach I'm hoping he'd chose would involve trying something that he's not sure he can do, and any chance or risk of failure often paralyzes him. A great thinker but not so much of a hands-on guy... and perhaps if he were a bit older, things would be different, seeing how the INTP Fe usually needs some time to develop...
    i said these things in a different way earlier, but i wanted to reiterate... if you need him to consider something in particular, leading questions may be a useful tool... by presenting well thought out questions/options, and deferring to his opinion (when that is fair to you), you will help him become more confident in tackling this problem... presenting the same point from several angles (i.e. possible results, risks vs reward, contrasting perspective) at once will engage his thinking process... when/if you are able to get his thinking started do your best not to interject... the odds of him touching on your preferred outcome on his own are high... by allowing him to state the thought first, you will avoid making it feel "alien" (by which i mean derived from a biased view and therefore requiring unfair scrutiny)... either way, he will (most likely) feel more sure of his views after letting the thoughts passively "digest"...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sel_48_10 View Post
    Can I ask you as an INTP how you stand with regards to the whole MBTI thing, how you came to appreciate it, etc.? My partner considers it BS-amateur psychology, I guess because his Ti can't really take it seriously, which is a bit of a shame because there are quite a few resources I think he might benefit from, especially as pertaining to our communication issues.
    he is right... it is BS-amateur psychology... it has more validity than astrology (obviously), but that doesn't mean it is entirely withought value...

    here are some links that he may identify with (or may prove useful to you)... i feel that they are the cream of the crop and they are all written by intp's... if he identifies with one/or more of these strongly enough, he may understand what you see in it...

    INTP - The INTP Experience
    An INTP Profile
    INTP Architect | Oddly Developed Types

    it took a large number of identified parallels in my own life before i took any of this seriously...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sel_48_10 View Post
    Again, thank both you and your friend for your perspective and supportive remarks! It's been immeasurably helpful.
    i believe that i have spent upwards of six hours on this (including time waiting), so your appreciation is well received... your ability to clarify your thoughts, emotions, and thankfulness in such a concise way reminds me strongly of the infj who i "pestered" for you... i think it is my association with the way you say things that must be motivating me (i have been analyzing my purpose in this)...

    you are quite welcome; i have enjoyed feeling useful...

  5. #75
    Senior Member Array anticlimatic's Avatar
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    Break up.

    Get back together.

    If you break up again it will be for good.

  6. #76
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    ...anyhoo...

    I don't have a lot to add right now, I don't feel like I can comment too much on a relationship I haven't witnessed in detail. I just wanted to tell you (Sel) that your opening description of your relationship and your feelings rings true to me, it seems much like what i've seen in my own life and in relationships where INTPs and IFJs were together.

    I understand you had some strong emotional responses to the way he handled things (I remember seeing the word "cowardly") and I understand totally why you would use it and feel that way. I just wanted to say that from my end, I totally get why he didn't say anything, it's just really a different approach to life and relationships. And of course i get the issue of his feeling out of control but now he's stuck in a situation where his emotions just aren't there and he doesn't want to live fraudulently... yet at the same time doesn't want to make a huge mistake and losing a relationship that could have worked. IOW, his motivations actually seem pretty positive to me, it's simply that his life experience and relationship savvy isn't up to the task of what he is facing; this is something difficult for him to figure out. Ambivalence is one large problem an INTP might typically face, in relationships or jobs or elsewhere.

    I don't know if it would help him to look outside the relationship at life in general -- okay, perhaps he's not sure of his feelings towards you, but he can assess what his expectations were for his "ideal relationship" and what he expects to feel and experience elsewhere. See, right now he just sees that this relationship (and the emotion he experiences) isn't meeting his expectations, but it's possible his expectations haven't yet been calibrated realistically. It's difficult to tell.

    I agree with the idea of leading questions. You definitely want to avoid pressuring him; however, he needs to be encouraged to a reasonable amount to engage and share his thoughts. Working through thoughts and feelings rather than avoiding them because there seems to be no solution is a necessity here.

    I'm sorry, I'm feeling like I haven't really said much useful. My main goal was just letting you know that this is not a weird problem for both of you to have, it actually sounds pretty par for course for the types and for relationships. It's something that you can both invest in working through, even if it's not clear where it is going right now, rather than a sign that things are doomed. If that makes sense.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #77
    Junior Member Array Noweej's Avatar
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    I agree with the 1st post of Totenkindly, but it's also different if love was involved for me or not.

    Relationships without love :
    If I break up, I don't need time to get over it, it's already done. And I'll never come back to the ex or talk to him again.
    If he breaks up, I need to know why, even if the guy has no importance, I just want to understand, so if needed, I'll ask again and again until he gives the answer or I discover it.

    Relationship with love (really rare, 2 in my life) :
    When I broke up, even if it was a decision well thought, better for both of us, it did hurt a lot, because since I loved him, it means that I imagined all my life with him and seeing him sad and all that falling into pieces was certainly hard.
    It took about 5 months for me to stop crying about it. We're still friends, I don't regret anything with him and I still think that he's someone really exceptionnal. We were not enough for each other, but I sincerely wish him all the happiness and so does he.
    After that break up, I thought I didn't want another relationship or another love, but I met my actual partner ^^'... And all those bloody feelings exploded in me again and at age 31, I still don't know how to handle them, because in love, I always go all in, I can't do it just halfway or so, it's way too difficult to control.
    No break up initiated by the man here, so I can't say for now.

    Anyway, an ex is always an ex for a good reason, I never break up on a whim, so no need to come back on the decision.

  8. #78
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    How a person gets into break up state:
    Step #1
    Find compatible person
    Step #2
    Have a date
    Step #3
    Get into relationship
    Step #4
    Break up

    We have already lost 85 % of INTPs in step #1, 90 % at step #2 and 95 % at step #3.

    OK. This was a speculation. Me as an ENTP have never entered to step #3 (age 30). Still females tend to have good time around me.

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obfuscate View Post
    Haha, I actually stumbled upon this myself around the same time I found this forum, and it was super eye-opening, for me obviously especially the dating and interpreting chapter. I'm not sure if I'll send it to my INTP, he doesn't speak English that well (we are Swiss btw) and it might be hard for him to work through, although I'm quite sure he'd see a lot of himself in it. And the last two chapters could be very helpful, especially because I recall him mentioning that he thinks his habit of subjugating his emotions to his rationality could be at the root of his depression. Thankfully he's working through this with his therapist already...


    Quote Originally Posted by Totenkindly View Post
    IOW, his motivations actually seem pretty positive to me, it's simply that his life experience and relationship savvy isn't up to the task of what he is facing; this is something difficult for him to figure out. Ambivalence is one large problem an INTP might typically face, in relationships or jobs or elsewhere.

    I don't know if it would help him to look outside the relationship at life in general -- okay, perhaps he's not sure of his feelings towards you, but he can assess what his expectations were for his "ideal relationship" and what he expects to feel and experience elsewhere. See, right now he just sees that this relationship (and the emotion he experiences) isn't meeting his expectations, but it's possible his expectations haven't yet been calibrated realistically. It's difficult to tell.
    Thank you for your input! Yes, he struck me as quite overwhelmed with the situation (because his inferior Fe)? I'd agree that the relationship as it is isn't meeting his expectations and while he might have an idea of what he wants, he's unsure of how to get there...

    I took everyone's advice with the leading questions, presenting angles, staying patient and letting him come to the conclusions, and it was a much more constructive conversation than the one before. We both remained calm and relatively positive throughout, me especially once I saw that he seemed willing to invest in at least trying to work this through. He's hesitant because he also clearly sees the need to work on himself and is afraid that by focusing on our relationship he could quickly slip back into old habits and mechanisms that would damage himself again. Which is why I personally think at least one or two meetings with a couple's therapist might be helpful, and he said he'd think it over (which is already a lot more than I expected). I'm sure he respects that I made my own needs clear, namely that I can't be trying if he isn't willing to try either, because otherwise there's hardly any hope of success,

    We haven't yet exactly worked out how we'd define this next phase but I feel relatively hopeful, relatively because I've been through a lot of ups and downs and feel like I can't really take his word for anything anymore, even though he clarified in the end that he'd been upfront... I still feel wary, as if the next conversation could go in a completely different direction again but I'm trying to stay serene.

    Thanks again to everyone for your support!

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