User Tag List

First 5678 Last

Results 61 to 70 of 79

  1. #61
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    intp
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx
    Posts
    7,824

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MiasmaResonance View Post
    Yes, emotional stability will influence it. You cannot just counter with "not necessarily." Please provide an argument.

    Emotional stability will help to determine if a person can move on from a relationship, just as personality type will help to enable some people to more quickly move on from a failed relationship than others. They are both factors that must be taken into account. If a person is unstable, has self confidence issues, or anything emotionally "wrong" with them, it is likely that they will dwell on everything that went wrong for as long as it takes them to get over the issue, regardless of the fact they might be INTP or ESFJ. Someone with their priorities sorted and self confidence out will understand how to move on, even if they still happen to have feelings for the person. Emotional instability does not discriminate by type; anyone can be afflicted.

    An INTP with self confidence and few emotional problems will be more likely to move on from a relationship than an INTP with an inferiority complex, no matter the depth of their feelings. This usually holds true for every personality type.
    Word! d:D/-<
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  2. #62
    Junior Member WhyINTP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dovet View Post
    As I understand the INTP, once it's over, it's over. ....

    I can't help but fear that he's already forgotten all about me, and, thus, isn't being open-minded. I also can't help but fear that if he IS still thinking of me, he's intentionally squashing all of his feelings and focusing on "bad" things so as to get over me. Do you suppose this is accurate? Dare I write him an email reminder? Advice?

    PS - I HIGHLY doubt he will date anyone new. He fits the mold of a "recluse". And I love him!
    Sorry for the bump, but I'm hoping to contribute.

    I can tell from my own experience, even if we [INTPs] cut the ties, we revisit memories to find out where the problem occurred. The past, when we care, is crystallized like a snapshot of reality, much like that movie Source Code. We keep digging until we find an elegant answer to why the relationship failed. It is possible he thinks of you, but not just the good bits only.

    Infact even if he contacts you, internally it might be an experiment to collect data to test his theories about why you two are not together. He'll reach out, hear your side of the story, and retreat to process data. You can trap him a few times by asking for help about problems in your life, but he'll use it to collect more data and test more of his theories on you. It may become a roller coaster ride because you'll interpret it as a sign of interest at times, but it isn't.

    Yes, its over because its not so much about feelings but principles and consistency.

    About being a recluse, we are careful who we let into our heart because it is such a huge mental investment to get to know someone. To find out why someone makes certain decisions, why they act a certain way, and whether they have honor/loyalty/coherence is part of the charm. If you're an interesting source of material (most people aren't complex enough for an INTP's taste), then we stay interested until we figure you out and finally make a decision to continue a relationship.

    I suspect feelers have it easy because feelings occur spontaneously. For me, I have to understand a person as a way of showing my appreciation and affection. Usually get along very well with INFJs.
    Likes hecait liked this post

  3. #63
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    7

    Default

    Hello, I found this thread because I'm looking to understand my INTP-Partner (I'm an INFJ). He's 27, I'm 31 and we've been together 4 years after building a good friendship, and have had an amazing connection on physical, emotional and intellectual levels. We both say, even know, that we have never felt this strongly about anyone else before. Like all relationships do, we've had our share of obstacles but we've always been able to work through them - or so I felt.

    He's been in therapy for the last months because of his depression and has identified some problems he has which show themselves in our relationship, like a tendency to be passive and let the other one "take the reins" but then be upset about lack of self-determination and difficulty being upfront if he has the feeling the other person might not take it well. I've been as supportive as I can and have urged him that of course I want him to be authentic to himself and that I in no way want to override him or his wishes (I'm not a dominating person) also because he can then get resentful towards me. I've asked him to let me know how exactly I could help but there's not much I can do. I can't constantly be double-questioning every interaction we have, we both acknowledge that these are very much his issues and thus, the ball in mainly in his court.

    Last week, he told me that he wasn't sure about his feelings for me and that he'd often acted like everything was ok in our relationship when he felt it wasn't. This came very much out of the blue for me, not only am I completely devastated but I also feel tricked because I feel that we were doing so well. Apparently he hasn't been working on the aforementioned issues and they grew more overwhelming, to the point that they overshadowed a lot of the positive things in our relationship. From my perspective, it seems like they're blocking his love for me, and because our connection was so strong I have trouble believing that his feelings are just gone, and it's very inviting for me to believe that, were he to make progress on these problems, they wouldn't be standing between us and he'd feel close to me again. He says he definitely hopes that his feelings for me would return but he doesn't know how to make that happen. Obviously this is very painful for me, especially because to me it's self-evident that if something is important to you, you try to make it work, and he doesn't seem to have tried. He was very upset and emotional, saying he has no idea how this could have happened, and that he would have tried sooner if he knew it would've come to this.

    We've spent a lot of hours since then talking and crying and trying to hash it out, in which I asked him to be upfront and explicit and he maintains that he is. He says he can't be in a relationship where he's not sure about his feelings and has said he feels like he has two options, either a break or a break-up, but that he's afraid he would regret it because he feels that we might still make it. There is definitely still a lot of affection and intimacy there, which gives me the impression that not all is lost. He admits that he has not seriously considered how a break-up would affect him and impact his life, and it was incredibly painful for both of us when we discussed how it might be. He says he doesn't know what to do, and I imagine he feels like none of the options look easy or more attractive than the other, stuck between a rock and a hard place.

    I'm still under shock, the idea I had about our relationship can't be dismantled after a few days. The idea of not being with him is so horrible it's repellant, I'm numb and can't wrap my head around it. Rationally though, I know he is putting me through a shitty situation, that he was being cowardly by only telling me once he felt it was too late, and that I'm suffering a lot because of his failures to get himself into order. I have to ask myself if this is a relationship I want to be in - and the answer has always been yes because I was convinced it was worth the effort. I know I can't be committed for both of us but I love him so much I can't leave as long as there is still a chance we might make it. I know I can't force his love and perhaps I'm seeing this all wrong, but as an INFJ, I'm used to building on my intuition.

    Both of us are confused and hurting and don't know what to do or to think. Any perspective would be appreciated.

  4. #64
    Senior Member RedAmazoneFriendZone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    MBTI
    ESFP
    Enneagram
    7w8 sx/sp
    Posts
    1,196

    Default

    I could only advise you two to see a couple therapist together. When things get complicate, and both feel powerless facing a situation, it is an emergency to find a solution with a professional

    who will be able to listen carefully each "side" and feelings, in an objective and non judgemental way. Of course this is worth it if both of you do love each other but feel stuck in a dead-end.

    Be brave and take a quick decision before it becomes too late.
    ALL THAT WE SEE OR SEEM TO BE IS BUT A DREAM WITHIN A DREAM

  5. #65
    Egad! No bondage! Obfuscate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    MBTI
    iNtP
    Enneagram
    954 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ili Ni
    Posts
    721

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RedAmazoneFriendZone View Post
    I could only advise you two to see a couple therapist together. When things get complicate, and both feel powerless facing a situation, it is an emergency to find a solution with a professional

    who will be able to listen carefully each "side" and feelings, in an objective and non judgemental way. Of course this is worth it if both of you do love each other but feel stuck in a dead-end.

    Be brave and take a quick decision before it becomes too late.
    -for friendzone
    it is hard to say how much sel's partner is like me, but i would assume that resistance to counseling would be the most natural response... after typing that sentence i recalled that he is already in therapy... your advice isn't bad, and i don't mean to appear critical... i will say that emergency feels like an extreme term...

    -for sel
    if you do bring it up, i would enter the subject carefully, and leave plenty of time for him to consider it without pushing for a response... resistance is the most common response from intp's to questions with a timer... given that he feels he has an unhealthy habit of letting you run the show, it might be cathartic for him to feel fully in control of the decision... i think that if he is open to the line of questioning, finding out how his current therapy is going could be illuminating... achieving success with counseling/ is a reasonable basis for comparison if either of you feel unsure... because of the nature of therapy, asking for unsolicited details may cause him to "lock up"... you know him better than i can, use your best judgement and tread lightly...

    a friend of mine told me this about his practice (i am paraphrasing)... "i settled on couples counseling because it has the highest chance of success... with children you can't solve the problems because they want you to fix the child, but most often it is the parents who have unhealthy thoughts and behaviors... in one on one therapy, you only hear one side of the story.. most often that story portrays the individual in the most comfortable light and contains lies of omission and fact (even if they don't know it)... when you are working with a couple they are both involved in with situation intimately enough to call bullshit and hold each other accountable... they may not always come to terms, but at least you are able to confront the real issues..." (in case his level of education is important to you, i will mention he is a psychologist )

    Quote Originally Posted by Sel_48_10 View Post
    He's been in therapy for the last months because of his depression and has identified some problems he has which show themselves in our relationship, like a tendency to be passive and let the other one "take the reins" but then be upset about lack of self-determination and difficulty being upfront if he has the feeling the other person might not take it well. I've been as supportive as I can and have urged him that of course I want him to be authentic to himself and that I in no way want to override him or his wishes (I'm not a dominating person) also because he can then get resentful towards me. I've asked him to let me know how exactly I could help but there's not much I can do. I can't constantly be double-questioning every interaction we have, we both acknowledge that these are very much his issues and thus, the ball in mainly in his court.
    the way you responded to this was in good form... infj's tend to be lovely and considerate women (in my experience)... i would like to point out that your last sentence rings of truth... try to keep that in mind, and only analyze these things when it is healthy for you to do so...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sel_48_10 View Post
    Last week, he told me that he wasn't sure about his feelings for me and that he'd often acted like everything was ok in our relationship when he felt it wasn't. This came very much out of the blue for me, not only am I completely devastated but I also feel tricked because I feel that we were doing so well. Apparently he hasn't been working on the aforementioned issues and they grew more overwhelming, to the point that they overshadowed a lot of the positive things in our relationship. From my perspective, it seems like they're blocking his love for me, and because our connection was so strong I have trouble believing that his feelings are just gone, and it's very inviting for me to believe that, were he to make progress on these problems, they wouldn't be standing between us and he'd feel close to me again. He says he definitely hopes that his feelings for me would return but he doesn't know how to make that happen. Obviously this is very painful for me, especially because to me it's self-evident that if something is important to you, you try to make it work, and he doesn't seem to have tried. He was very upset and emotional, saying he has no idea how this could have happened, and that he would have tried sooner if he knew it would've come to this.
    = ( i doubt he thought of it as lying to you... while it may have been pain avoidance, i would assume that he framed it in his mind as "giving it all a fair shot" or "i can't deal with this right now, because {insert an excuse that sounded reasonable at the time}"... the fact that he bothered with counseling would suggest to me that it was done out of love... these behaviors do block your love, but the source of not addressing the issues may very well have been deference to your feelings... these small things didn't just grow over night, and their current form doesn't indicate his initial intentions clearly...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sel_48_10 View Post
    We've spent a lot of hours since then talking and crying and trying to hash it out, in which I asked him to be upfront and explicit and he maintains that he is. He says he can't be in a relationship where he's not sure about his feelings and has said he feels like he has two options, either a break or a break-up, but that he's afraid he would regret it because he feels that we might still make it. There is definitely still a lot of affection and intimacy there, which gives me the impression that not all is lost. He admits that he has not seriously considered how a break-up would affect him and impact his life, and it was incredibly painful for both of us when we discussed how it might be. He says he doesn't know what to do, and I imagine he feels like none of the options look easy or more attractive than the other, stuck between a rock and a hard place.
    the fact that he is bringing this to your attention instead of surprising you with a break up feels like a "good" sign (good is a rather subjective word)... if he knew things were truly beyond hope he would have just ended it... as long as you both feel like their is hope of improvement, there is... your last sentence feels entirely accurate; though without hearing what he had to say, i am less than confident in saying so...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sel_48_10 View Post
    I'm still under shock, the idea I had about our relationship can't be dismantled after a few days. The idea of not being with him is so horrible it's repellant, I'm numb and can't wrap my head around it. Rationally though, I know he is putting me through a shitty situation, that he was being cowardly by only telling me once he felt it was too late, and that I'm suffering a lot because of his failures to get himself into order. I have to ask myself if this is a relationship I want to be in - and the answer has always been yes because I was convinced it was worth the effort. I know I can't be committed for both of us but I love him so much I can't leave as long as there is still a chance we might make it. I know I can't force his love and perhaps I'm seeing this all wrong, but as an INFJ, I'm used to building on my intuition.

    Both of us are confused and hurting and don't know what to do or to think. Any perspective would be appreciated.
    infj feelings are overwhelming... anyhow, i hope this is helpful in some small way... i wish you both a healthy outcome, and hope that means you stay together...

    post script:

    tag or quote me if you desire further input from me...
    Last edited by Obfuscate; 08-21-2016 at 03:45 AM. Reason: post script
    Likes Totenkindly liked this post

  6. #66
    Senior Member RedAmazoneFriendZone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    MBTI
    ESFP
    Enneagram
    7w8 sx/sp
    Posts
    1,196

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Obfuscate View Post
    i will say that emergency feels like an extreme term...
    It's up to you. That's only the way I'd feel in this situation. Bon courage !
    ALL THAT WE SEE OR SEEM TO BE IS BUT A DREAM WITHIN A DREAM

  7. #67
    Egad! No bondage! Obfuscate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    MBTI
    iNtP
    Enneagram
    954 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ili Ni
    Posts
    721

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RedAmazoneFriendZone View Post
    It's up to you. That's only the way I'd feel in this situation. Bon courage !
    i feel that interpersonal problems in general don't feel like emergencies... things like heart failure and waking up to your house on fire are the things i use that word for... i am not sure why i bothered to say anything about it...

  8. #68
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RedAmazoneFriendZone View Post
    I could only advise you two to see a couple therapist together. When things get complicate, and both feel powerless facing a situation, it is an emergency to find a solution with a professional

    who will be able to listen carefully each "side" and feelings, in an objective and non judgemental way. Of course this is worth it if both of you do love each other but feel stuck in a dead-end.

    Be brave and take a quick decision before it becomes too late.
    Thank you for your comment! You're quite right, I'd actually proposed that to him before, knowing full well he would reject it Not only because he takes a long time to ask for help but also because I suspect the idea of having to open up to anther person isn't very appealing to him. This time he said he already has a therapist, which is true. But as competent as my partner's therapist may be, the object of study there isn't our relationship but my partner's issues, so it's not at all the same thing and can't replace couple's therapy, which I agree could be helpful. In any case, it'd be a concrete measure to take instead of passively letting things "happen" (which seems to have been my partner's method of choice).

    I'm considering broaching the subject again, as tactfully and non-demanding as possible of course! I know INTPs can get overwhelmed by emotion, be it their own or someone else's, so I hope we can have a calmer, more grounded discussion next time.
    Likes RedAmazoneFriendZone liked this post

  9. #69
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Obfuscate View Post
    -for sel
    if you do bring it up, i would enter the subject carefully, and leave plenty of time for him to consider it without pushing for a response... resistance is the most common response from intp's to questions with a timer... given that he feels he has an unhealthy habit of letting you run the show, it might be cathartic for him to feel fully in control of the decision... i think that if he is open to the line of questioning, finding out how his current therapy is going could be illuminating... achieving success with counseling/ is a reasonable basis for comparison if either of you feel unsure... because of the nature of therapy, asking for unsolicited details may cause him to "lock up"... you know him better than i can, use your best judgement and tread lightly...

    a friend of mine told me this about his practice (i am paraphrasing)... "i settled on couples counseling because it has the highest chance of success... with children you can't solve the problems because they want you to fix the child, but most often it is the parents who have unhealthy thoughts and behaviors... in one on one therapy, you only hear one side of the story.. most often that story portrays the individual in the most comfortable light and contains lies of omission and fact (even if they don't know it)... when you are working with a couple they are both involved in with situation intimately enough to call bullshit and hold each other accountable... they may not always come to terms, but at least you are able to confront the real issues..." (in case his level of education is important to you, i will mention he is a psychologist )
    Thank you! You're absolutely accurate that I need to tread lightly and that he needs to feel in control of the decision (even though - or maybe precisely because? - he has so much trouble with decisiveness). I also agree with what your friend says about couple's therapy - he has been quite open with me about how his therapy has been going (I try not to pry so that he won't clam up) and has mentioned himself that his therapist may have a one-sided view of our relationship because generally the discussion focuses more on problems than on all the positive aspects. From what I understood, his therapist seems to be of the opinion that one can't stay in a relationship where one has to question whether the love is there... which is a valid point but IMO seems like a limited view of the situation because he only heard my partner's side of the story! Also since his therapist isn't a couple's therapist, his object of concern is my partner, which is perhaps the reason why a break-up seems like the neatest solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Obfuscate View Post
    = ( i doubt he thought of it as lying to you... while it may have been pain avoidance, i would assume that he framed it in his mind as "giving it all a fair shot" or "i can't deal with this right now, because {insert an excuse that sounded reasonable at the time}"... the fact that he bothered with counseling would suggest to me that it was done out of love... these behaviors do block your love, but the source of not addressing the issues may very well have been deference to your feelings... these small things didn't just grow over night, and their current form doesn't indicate his initial intentions clearly...
    That makes a lot of sense to me. I feel kind of bad about my reaction, because my emotional whirlwind was probably exactly what he had been dreading since he can't deal with any emotional overload. Perhaps he would have come to me sooner if he felt we could have a calmer discussion about it.. I'm not going to suppress my feelings or censor myself but I do recognize it'd be smarter to meet him halfway next time. Perhaps he'd feel more comfortable opening up if he didn't have to be afraid of being "emotionally steamrolled" so to speak..?


    Quote Originally Posted by Obfuscate View Post
    the fact that he is bringing this to your attention instead of surprising you with a break up feels like a "good" sign (good is a rather subjective word)... if he knew things were truly beyond hope he would have just ended it... as long as you both feel like their is hope of improvement, there is... your last sentence feels entirely accurate; though without hearing what he had to say, i am less than confident in saying so...
    As long as an INTP is still talking to you, I suppose it's a good sign! As long as he's being honest and not resorting to sugarcoating things, that is... still, thank you for your support!

  10. #70
    Egad! No bondage! Obfuscate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    MBTI
    iNtP
    Enneagram
    954 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ili Ni
    Posts
    721

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sel_48_10 View Post
    Thank you! You're absolutely accurate that I need to tread lightly and that he needs to feel in control of the decision (even though - or maybe precisely because? - he has so much trouble with decisiveness). I also agree with what your friend says about couple's therapy - he has been quite open with me about how his therapy has been going (I try not to pry so that he won't clam up) and has mentioned himself that his therapist may have a one-sided view of our relationship because generally the discussion focuses more on problems than on all the positive aspects. From what I understood, his therapist seems to be of the opinion that one can't stay in a relationship where one has to question whether the love is there... which is a valid point but IMO seems like a limited view of the situation because he only heard my partner's side of the story! Also since his therapist isn't a couple's therapist, his object of concern is my partner, which is perhaps the reason why a break-up seems like the neatest solution.
    this therapist sounds like a feeler type... analyzing love doesn't mean that a relationship should end; if it did/does it would mean that i should end every relationship at inception... getting an outside opinion from someone you both feel you can trust is a good idea... if your funds allow for it, i would "interview" several candidates for that role and only proceed when you both feel comfortable with the person in question... the belief that the therapist is able to help is the single most important indicator of their ability to do so...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sel_48_10 View Post
    That makes a lot of sense to me. I feel kind of bad about my reaction, because my emotional whirlwind was probably exactly what he had been dreading since he can't deal with any emotional overload. Perhaps he would have come to me sooner if he felt we could have a calmer discussion about it.. I'm not going to suppress my feelings or censor myself but I do recognize it'd be smarter to meet him halfway next time. Perhaps he'd feel more comfortable opening up if he didn't have to be afraid of being "emotionally steamrolled" so to speak..?
    if you value his input about his emotions i would think it is important to make the times that he initiates a conversation about them as nonthreatening as you can... when you feel a powerful negative response is the most important time to be vigilant... if you have initiated the conversation (and he doesn't seem to be retreating from it), it might be a better time to address those negative feelings.... i would think it may be preferable (from a results based stand point) to address your feelings when they aren't running the show... when a discussion of emotions is irrational, it can be dis-empowering for intp... emotions as justification can be hard to deal with... talking to him about his personal experiences would give you the best understanding... if you do manage to have a "good discussion", but later use it as "ammunition" it will degrade his faith in the ability to have future interactions on that level...

    i have more that i could say, but i think this encompasses a lot...


    Quote Originally Posted by Sel_48_10 View Post
    As long as an INTP is still talking to you, I suppose it's a good sign! As long as he's being honest and not resorting to sugarcoating things, that is... still, thank you for your support!
    honest communication of emotion that isn't directly an attack meant to end things is a good sign... saying that honest is "good" in the blanket sense is not something i would do... but yes, everything you have said would make me think that this is going as well as it can...

    you are welcome... i have had relationships in which i really wanted an outside voice to say things like this to my partner... that didn't happen, and now i am single...

Quick Reply Quick Reply

  • :hi:
  • :bye:
  • :)
  • :D
  • :hug:
  • :happy2:
  • :smile:
  • :wubbie:
  • :wink:
  • ;)
  • :newwink:
  • :cry:
  • :(
  • :doh:
  • :mad:
  • :dry:
  • :unsure:
  • :huh:
  • :shock:
  • :shrug:

Similar Threads

  1. Rethinking INTPness after a few years
    By yellamo in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-11-2015, 04:28 PM
  2. [INTP] INTP personality type descritpion
    By SolitaryWalker in forum Myers-Briggs Type Profiles
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 12-08-2013, 06:58 PM
  3. [INTP] INTP loving again after multiple heart breaks?
    By SoInLove in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 07-01-2012, 06:59 AM
  4. [INTP] The INTP Appreciation Thread
    By MacGuffin in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 1013
    Last Post: 03-06-2012, 05:59 PM
  5. [INTP] How have you, as an INTP, dealt with a painful breakup?
    By NotOfTwo in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 02-18-2011, 04:52 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO