[INTJ] Scattered INTJs...

[The Ü™]

Are any other INTJs here scatter-brained? Do you have random thoughts in your head that race so fast that you have trouble expressing them clearly? Do you sometimes use the wrong words in a statement because your mind thought a word meant something other than what it really means? I try to choose my words as carefully as possible but when I have thoughts just racing through my head, I can't stop to look at a dictionary because then I lose my train of thought. And this is tough enough to keep when I always have a compulsion to correct my spelling and punctuation errors as they happen.

I also have a habit of changing my words after I'm done writing something and it will sometimes contradict with what I said before. Perhaps because maybe I can understand multiple ends, particularly if my opinions on things are not that strong, or maybe I just came up with another viewpoint that contradicts with the one I said.

 

[Wandering]

I ain't no INTJ, but I found myself nodding in agreement almost throughout your post

My mind is constantly racing. That's the reason why I speak so fast, for example. People are always telling me to slow down, but I can't, because if I did, I would literally lose my train of thought !

And making up both sides of a discussion (or more, because having just two sides to any discussion is boring, really, ) is something I do so easily I could almost do it in my sleep. I constantly have those debates in my head, with different "voices" defending different positions, and I push and I push and I push, to see just how far each position can be taken, whether one or more will eventually fall apart, or whether maybe they can all be reconciled. (People are usually not privy to those debates, though: when I speak, I usually present only one position at a time.)

The one part of your post I really don't relate to is the "checking words" one. I'm almost obsessive about making sure I'm using the exact right word to describe what I mean, and few things shame me as much as being told that I used the wrong word to say something. On internet boards in particular, I tend to check the meaning of any word I'm not 100% sure of - though my intellectual ego gets in the way sometimes and I just assume that I know exactly what a word means But yeah, quite often when I'm posting on internet forums, there is a "dictionary.com" tab open somewhere But I only consult it during the "edit" phase of my posting, ie *after* I've written out my post - first get the ideas down, then check the vocabulary, consistency and whatnot :rolli:

 

[INTJMom]

Are any other INTJs here scatter-brained?
Yes. I often feel scatterbrained.

Do you have random thoughts in your head that race so fast that you have trouble expressing them clearly?
Yes, though I have seen other people who are worse than me.

Do you sometimes use the wrong words in a statement because your mind thought a word meant something other than what it really means?
Yes, more often when I'm stressed.

I try to choose my words as carefully as possible but when I have thoughts just racing through my head, I can't stop to look at a dictionary because then I lose my train of thought. And this is tough enough to keep when I always have a compulsion to correct my spelling and punctuation errors as they happen.
I try to write what I'm thinking till the train slows down, then I go to the thesaurus in Word, and figure out the alternate word I wanted. I have learned that if I don't get the whole thought down, I might forget it and not be able to remember it again.

I also have a habit of changing my words after I'm done writing something and it will sometimes contradict with what I said before. Perhaps because maybe I can understand multiple ends, particularly if my opinions on things are not that strong, or maybe I just came up with another viewpoint that contradicts with the one I said.
I have been known to change my mind. I don't recall contradicting myself. Maybe I do it but don't think of it as contradicting.

 

[nightning]

I believe it's a typical trait for INXJs... spend too much time in our heads, not pay enough attention to our surroundings. Making connections between concepts and ideas so quickly that they barely register as being there before being replaced with another. It's no surprise that we're scattered minded.

It happens to me far too often. Distracted for a second and couldn't for the life of me remember where I last left off.

 

[Wandering]

I believe it's a typical trait for INXJs... spend too much time in our heads, not pay enough attention to our surroundings.

"Too much", "not enough"... Says who ?

Distracted for a second and couldn't for the life of me remember where I last left off.

Which reminds me: am I the only one who does the "reverse thinking" stuff? Like there is this idea I want to examine, but before I know it, I've jumped through half a dozen intuitive leaps, and I can't remember where I started off, but I really want to, so I start from the final thought, and I try to remember how I got there, and so on till I finally remember the initial idea I wanted to examine? (That's assuming I don't go off on another tangent somewhere along the way, of course, in which case I just have to trust that my mind will remember that initial idea I wanted to examine, some time later :rolli: )

 

[Veneti]

Are any other INTJs here scatter-brained? Do you have random thoughts in your head that race so fast that you have trouble expressing them clearly? Do you sometimes use the wrong words in a statement because your mind thought a word meant something other than what it really means? I try to choose my words as carefully as possible but when I have thoughts just racing through my head, I can't stop to look at a dictionary because then I lose my train of thought. And this is tough enough to keep when I always have a compulsion to correct my spelling and punctuation errors as they happen.

I also have a habit of changing my words after I'm done writing something and it will sometimes contradict with what I said before. Perhaps because maybe I can understand multiple ends, particularly if my opinions on things are not that strong, or maybe I just came up with another viewpoint that contradicts with the one I said.

Not sure about random thoughts. Things do pop into my head, but I can trace them to something I have been thinking about in past etc.

To me, random thoughts would be the P thing. With low T.

My observation of the world is like looking through the view finder on a tank. Everything is cool calm and collected, I'm just waiting to smoke something that gets in my sights. Even when I'm completely drunk... I'm still very focused and retained in my mind... perhaps it feels like I stepped a bit further into my mind though.

Dunno, by I rarely change my mind or viewpoint on an arguement. If you think and think over your whole lifetime (and constantly learn) you have a lot to bring to bear on the target.

The self doubt in arguements etc is supposedly more of a P thing.

 

[The Ü™]

Not sure about random thoughts. Things do pop into my head, but I can trace them to something I have been thinking about in past etc.

To me, random thoughts would be the P thing. With low T.

My observation of the world is like looking through the view finder on a tank. Everything is cool calm and collected, I'm just waiting to smoke something that gets in my sights. Even when I'm completely drunk... I'm still very focused and retained in my mind... perhaps it feels like I stepped a bit further into my mind though.

Dunno, by I rarely change my mind or viewpoint on an arguement. If you think and think over your whole lifetime (and constantly learn) you have a lot to bring to bear on the target.

The self doubt in arguements etc is supposedly more of a P thing.

Well, I don't know if my thoughts are random, because I can normally pinpoint what inspired the thought, too, but my way of expressing it is highly random. Or sometimes I'll obsess about an idea, but somehow, I find it difficult to get it in the open in a coherent manner that will make perfect sense to others. The idea is racing through my head, but when I try to get it out, I often can't concentrate on the thought and the expression of it at the same time.

Internally, I'm disorganized and random, but externally, I'm the kind of person that has a hard time trying to justify my thoughts to other people. Truthfully, I wish that I could just say "Because I said so" when I express an opinion or an idea to which everyone else asks "Why?"

Fanciful thoughts, though they may be, my ideas are make sense in my mind, but they're hard for others to make sense out of them.

 

[Night]

The self doubt in arguements etc is supposedly more of a P thing.

Confident self-doubt is one of the most valuable intellectual traits one can hope to experience.

 

[Seanan]

Are any other INTJs here scatter-brained?

I don't see myself that way but others do... it tends to confuse them too. But, I guess I am since I often find myself in a room wondering what I'm there for... I just call it "forgetful."

Do you have random thoughts in your head that race so fast that you have trouble expressing them clearly?

Yes, especially when writing... not my forte. I'll be writing something.. maybe a post here... and something I say makes my mind go off on a tangent and I have to find my way back to the subject at hand.

Do you sometimes use the wrong words in a statement because your mind thought a word meant something other than what it really means?

Not often but sometimes and when it happens I usually find the correct meaning curious. Language is so arbitrary. I mean get one little symbol wrong and.... rose (beautiful) sore (ouch) eros (well )


I try to choose my words as carefully as possible but when I have thoughts just racing through my head, I can't stop to look at a dictionary because then I lose my train of thought.

Me too.

And this is tough enough to keep when I always have a compulsion to correct my spelling and punctuation errors as they happen.

Yeh... one little comma changed can change the whole meaning.

I also have a habit of changing my words after I'm done writing something and it will sometimes contradict with what I said before. Perhaps because maybe I can understand multiple ends,

I just went through that on, what for me is, a long post.

[/COLOR="Blue"]particularly if my opinions on things are not that strong, or maybe I just came up with another viewpoint that contradicts with the one I said.[/COLOR]


Even when mine are strong, it happens. I'm seeing a different angle or perspective as I write... having a wow! moment... sometimes I'm just learning as I write experiencing a revelation or inspiration. I think its because of the way I think. I've never been able to explain it. Some people think I'm psychic but I know I've been accumulating bits of info here and there and then, one day, they congeal and I come out with a prediction... (which happens of course) I know its based in fact but no one else can ever see it because I can't give them all that's gone into it.

All in all, I hate writing... I'm better with a brush

 

[Wandering]

I'm seeing a different angle or perspective as I write... having a wow! moment... sometimes I'm just learning as I write experiencing a revelation or inspiration. I think its because of the way I think. I've never been able to explain it. Some people think I'm psychic but I know I've been accumulating bits of info here and there and then, one day, they congeal and I come out with a prediction... (which happens of course) I know its based in fact but no one else can ever see it because I can't give them all that's gone into it.

Sounds very much like Ni

 

[The Ü™]

Has Seanan decided that s(he)'s an INTJ? If so, welcome to the club!

 

[Veneti]

Confident self-doubt is one of the most valuable intellectual traits one can hope to experience.

Self doubt is a function of not knowing. You shouldn't be arguing if you do not know.

 

[Night]

Self doubt is a function of not knowing. You shouldn't be arguing if you do not know.

"Knowing" is a function of self-deceit.

Theories are only as such because we haven't yet the evidence to disprove them.

 

[Mycroft]

"Knowing" is a function of self-deceit.

Theories are only as such because we haven't yet the evidence to disprove them.

While I follow your notion, this sounds suspiciously akin to the "reasoning" employed by evangelicals.

 

[Night]

Haha...I like you Mycroft.

No - I was referring to empirical re-evaluation of existing data using the scientific model of analysis as template.

Phrenology is a classical example.

 

[Mycroft]

Haha...I like you Mycroft.
No - I was referring to empirical re-evaluation of existing data using the scientific model of analysis as template.

Phrenology is a classical example.

Much obliged. The feeling is mutual.

I understand what you mean and agree. I'm a believer in science specifically because of the institution of proof through attempted disproof.

I just don't like the ends some types carry this observation to.

 

[Veneti]

While I follow your notion, this sounds suspiciously akin to the "reasoning" employed by evangelicals.

Yes, roll out the intelligent design theories....

Problem with a lot of people in arguments is that each time they reply they take the argument incrementally away from the original premise. The argument becomes more about winning it than actually discussing the ideas in the first place.

Arguments are for when you are almost certain.

Listening is for when you have some understanding.

If you argue and change your mind often then you are doing the classic F and acting on emotional impulse. Should be less arguing and more listening/ understanding. Thats why I can't stand semi intellectuals - low - xNxx.

 

[Ezra]

Are any other INTJs here scatter-brained? Do you have random thoughts in your head that race so fast that you have trouble expressing them clearly?

Absolutely. I'm not even an INTJ, but this applied to me, so I felt I needed to say something. I try to tame them, and they always have a relation to the last point, but essentially, I fire them out so quickly that people think I'm being random. I'm not. I merely have ideas I don't express, and some I do. And my mind works far quicker than my speech.

 

[zarc]

Problem with a lot of people in arguments is that each time they reply they take the argument incrementally away from the original premise. The argument becomes more about winning it than actually discussing the ideas in the first place.

Arguments are for when you are almost certain.

That is a big problem with arguments, when they drift away from the original premise...but sometimes it opens up new ideas, depending on the maturity of the people involved and their willingness to derail. I understand the want of focus in trying to maintain it, trust me, but it can sometimes be a good thing in branching away to capture new leaves of thought. However, arguments need not be made when you are almost certain. You limit yourself to what you already know, not allowing room for error which is akin to not allowing the possibility for learning a new answer for yourself or from another. Even if that other person is wrong or you turned out to be wrong, you can learn from it if you choose to. If your sole intention is to prove your point, thus 'winning' because it's not discussing if there's an argument implicity set up, then that's different. Though, you can still absorb the other person's POV even if you discount it because you may find it useful eventually or can apply your handling of it within your next argument.

Listening is for when you have some understanding.

It's in trying to understand that people will listen or try to. Or if you will, you can have some prior understanding and listen further or you may not, entirely your choice. Or you may not have any prior understanding or current misunderstanding but still choose to listen.

If you argue and change your mind often then you are doing the classic F and acting on emotional impulse. Should be less arguing and more listening/ understanding. Thats why I can't stand semi intellectuals - low - xNxx.

StereoTypical. Firstly, you can change your mind without having to re/act on emotional impulse. When thoughts become stuck and you can't Te well enough? It doesn't equate that you'll immediately rely on Fe out of frustration. If you have such a classical view on CPs by attributing a single letter to represent Types through their potential behaviours/or cognitive processing, then perhaps you should re-learn. And what is your basis for labelling xNxx as being semi-intellectually-low- or more so than any other mixture as it's implied? Where is your reasoning to support such an idea? Any xxxx can be as semi-intellecually low as you deem them.

 

[zarc]

"Knowing" is a function of self-deceit.

I'd say knowing can restrict with self-deceit or it can emancipate with self-awareness. Most people function without self-awareness daily, but not necessarily will they employ self-deceit until they must exert some 'knowledge' (so yea and most likely do it daily too...). When I first read your "confident-self doubt being a valuable trait one can hope to experience", it made me think that as long as we allow the possibility that we may be wrong, we will not box ourselves against new information which contrasts what we prieviously thought correct (not so succinctly worded as your way of 're-evaluting existing data)-- we can allow ourselves the chance in discerning this new info, without bias or little to none. That is when we escape or disconnect from self-deceit, which may have been an unconscous rejection to begin with which became conscious when we felt threatened by some new "unknown" info we've never perceived before or have become aware enough to recognise that it challenges our old "thoughts/beliefs". So we fight it-- But if we allow possibility that we/info can change, we won't need to think outside of the box. We merely won't perceive it any more but we will still be self-aware enough to recogise it as being capable of returning and of self-deceit/lack of self-awareness of existing within others..

Though, I wonder if I spun my own web using your words as prey. Correct me if wrong or crazy, though I had fun playing with them!