User Tag List

First 2345 Last

Results 31 to 40 of 42

  1. #31
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    MBTI
    GONE
    Posts
    9,051

    Default

    <placeholder for future comments>

    Ooh, I so do want to contribute.

    I'll say for right now I used to think you could be so blunt and out of left-field with your unsolicited comments and observations that I thought you were kinda mean.

    Sometimes they were done with obvious humor and could be funny (partly in the way things are when you go, wow, I can't believe they said that) so I figured you just lacked that level of social propriety and awareness of other's feelings that comes more naturally to NFs. And/or just had a more 'blunt' sense of humor which is not uncommon IRL, especially amongst guys, and especially amongst NTs.

    I didn't think you were doing it on purpose to be a jerk though -- or not as big of a jerk as some people might think. In fact I got the impression you were mostly oblivious to the fact how someone might personally take something you say. So, true to type in that way. :rolli:

    But I don't think (like others I've seen) you get pompous or defensive about it, as if you are somehow above emotional peons and feelings are for losers or you are uncomfortable with this facet of your personality. You like honesty, but I think kinda like Whatever alluded to, you have a hard time distinguishing from your own personal truth and the objective truth. Oftentimes trying to 'analyze people' comes down to your own POV after all.

    So yes, emotionally navel gazing in that way as someone said. I think you are very thoughtful, even sensitive, you want to live correctly, and as an NT it gets expressed a bit clinically -- like you want to 'correct' people including yourself by focusing on their actions and telling them to 'fix' them. But as you can see, people generally don't respond well to that (look at how unpopular Dr. Phil is!) especially when unsolicited. And people will disagree with you on what is actually broken or in need of correction, i.e. POV.

    And remember, INTPs can get really stuck inside their heads on one-track loops and generally need someone else to pull them out of it. Perhaps what you're doing here? So maybe not so much narcissistic, just stuck on a loop. Narcissistic implies you assume you are better than everyone and are inherently deserving of more and better things in life. It's a little different from self-consciousness or the 'self-focus' that comes from therapy. But again, I guess it would be up to friends and ex-girlfriends to give a better picture!

    Alright, I'll add more later! Time for class! Don't worry, I have more honest things in a kind, respectful tone to say.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

    Johari/Nohari

  2. #32
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Posts
    232

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    <placeholder for future comments>

    Ooh, I so do want to contribute.

    I'll say for right now I used to think you could be so blunt and out of left-field with your unsolicited comments and observations that I thought you were kinda mean.

    Sometimes they were done with obvious humor and could be funny (partly in the way things are when you go, wow, I can't believe they said that) so I figured you just lacked that level of social propriety and awareness of other's feelings that comes more naturally to NFs. And/or just had a more 'blunt' sense of humor which is not uncommon IRL, especially amongst guys, and especially amongst NTs.

    I didn't think you were doing it on purpose to be a jerk though -- or not as big of a jerk as some people might think. In fact I got the impression you were mostly oblivious to the fact how someone might personally take something you say. So, true to type in that way. :rolli:

    But I don't think (like others I've seen) you get pompous or defensive about it, as if you are somehow above emotional peons and feelings are for losers or you are uncomfortable with this facet of your personality. You like honesty, but I think kinda like Whatever alluded to, you have a hard time distinguishing from your own personal truth and the objective truth. Oftentimes trying to 'analyze people' comes down to your own POV after all.

    So yes, emotionally navel gazing in that way as someone said. I think you are very thoughtful, even sensitive, you want to live correctly, and as an NT it gets expressed a bit clinically -- like you want to 'correct' people including yourself by focusing on their actions and telling them to 'fix' them. But as you can see, people generally don't respond well to that (look at how unpopular Dr. Phil is!) especially when unsolicited. And people will disagree with you on what is actually broken or in need of correction, i.e. POV.

    And remember, INTPs can get really stuck inside their heads on one-track loops and generally need someone else to pull them out of it. Perhaps what you're doing here? So maybe not so much narcissistic, just stuck on a loop. Narcissistic implies you assume you are better than everyone and are inherently deserving of more and better things in life. It's a little different from self-consciousness or the 'self-focus' that comes from therapy. But again, I guess it would be up to friends and ex-girlfriends to give a better picture!

    Alright, I'll add more later! Time for class! Don't worry, I have more honest things in a kind, respectful tone to say.
    Those are great comments CzeCze, very analytical and observant.

    I read somewhere that most successful people possess narcissistic traits- but when it becomes a personality disorder is when they are unable to function in society. I think what narcissists- the ones with problems- have in common is that they suffer from a deep hatred of themselves and of humanity.

  3. #33
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1
    Posts
    4,223

    Default

    i think your mom's response was uncalled for. she was obviously lashing out because you hit a nerve. you just wanted her to contemplate that perspective so that maybe she'll change.

    then again, you gotta be careful when you make observations of others to their faces; i have no idea what your tone was, maybe you were very gentile. but i somehow doubt that. i'm sure you wouldn't respond that way to an observation about yourself, but she seems very fragile...

    btw, i have observations about everyone i surround myself with. my closest friends are the ones that can hear them (i know maybe 3, only 1 of whom i see on a somewhat regular basis). i wish i wasn't so sensitive to everyone else's feelings. you're lucky enough to be able to break through that. but you probably go too far sometimes...

    but yeah, i think you do that because you want someone to do it to you. you want to be challenged...you just want to figure yourself out. but not everyone does...unfortunately.

  4. #34
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    366

    Default

    I never figured you as one of the mean INTP's. The opposite actually, with streaks toward 'coldness' that any T would be able to understand.

  5. #35
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    7,233

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Both, really. Mostly because it's not appropriate, I suppose. She's an adult. It's not written anywhere that you have to self-actualize if you don't want to. You aren't her therapist, you aren't her spouse, or her friend of thirty years, she doesn't want your involvement so it is no more appropriate for you to try to force your way in than it would be for you to do so with, say, a professor or an employer.

    Helping her out wouldn't be enough. What you are doing is trying to pull little cards out of the bottom of her house. Would she be happier if she let it all fall down and rebuilt it on a better foundation? Probably. Does that mean she's ready to do it right now or that she's ever going to see it as worth the investment? Who knows?

    What I do know is that you are not going to have time to invest what she will need in helping her rebuild and that even if you did, such a relationship would probably inhibit your own growth and development when you should be out building your own life and finding a parter, etc.

    I'm guessing she didn't sacrifice herself and stay with your dad just to see you hindered and stunted by things she long ago accepted as part of the bargain.
    Very good comments. Do you think there's any use in trying to help a person out by pointing out there flaws? I guess I'm not doing the right way, if there is a right way. I see my mom and see how she suffers and it bothers me. I deal with that by trying to point out her own suffering and make her stronger. My approach is shitty, but the question remains: do you have some kind of duty to help someone sort out their issues, even if that entails temporarily stirring things up for the worse? If so, how do you do that?

  6. #36
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    7,233

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    i think your mom's response was uncalled for.
    Finally, a voice of reason from the NFs! (lol)

    I agree with the rest of your comments, too. Thank you.

  7. #37
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Socionics
    INFj None
    Posts
    9,827

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    Very good comments. Do you think there's any use in trying to help a person out by pointing out there flaws? I guess I'm not doing the right way, if there is a right way. I see my mom and see how she suffers and it bothers me. I deal with that by trying to point out her own suffering and make her stronger. My approach is shitty, but the question remains: do you have some kind of duty to help someone sort out their issues, even if that entails temporarily stirring things up for the worse? If so, how do you do that?
    The first thing is that pointing out someone's flaws is kind of putting yourself in a superior position. If the person solicits you for that and you are in a mentoring role, it can work. I haven't seen it work too well outside of that.

    I don't think we do have a duty to help someone else sort out their issues unless they solicit it and even then the best approach is usually that of a listening ear. There really aren't any short-cuts to growth (with the possible exception of horrible catastrophe and it's best not to set those in motion intentionally). People just have to work out their own stuff most of the time and they usually have to get enough of it in order to be motivated to leave the hell they know, so to speak.

    You can't fix people with a figurative hammer and screwdriver. The best you can do is just be there and be supportive while they do the real work themselves. I think you are using a hammer/screwdriver approach and to me, that is an impatient approach. It may make you feel better right now, but it doesn't really do the other person much good. It just hurts.

    FWIW, I don't think you should assume that your mother's willingness to take stuff she maybe shouldn't is necessarily weakness. Sometimes people choose to carry a heavier load because they believe they can do it more easily than others because they know they are strong.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  8. #38
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    7,233

    Default UPDATE

    Well, my mom and I just had a talk. Here's what we figured out:

    1. I don't respect her opinion. I dismiss her opinion like my father dismisses other people's opinions unless they can out-logic him.
    2. A small part of me really wants to help my mom, but mostly, I use her as a punching bag. I must have some sadism in me. I actually think it has a lot to do with outgrouping and aggression. I don't see my mom as part of the ingroup (because I don't respect her opinion) and compete with her instead of cooperate. Thank you, social psychology.
    3. I might be projecting my anger onto my mom and then making her feel shitty for it because I'm unable to deal with these same issues.
    4. It's hard for me to respect my mother as she always seems to be getting out of people's way and submitting to them. My father treats her with little respect, she treats herself with little respect, and I treat her with little respect.

    The strangest part of this whole thing is how relaxed I am about all this. I even felt the urge to laugh at a couple points.

  9. #39
    Procrastinating
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    954

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    It was recently been pointed out by my mother that I'm a narcissistic sadist who enjoys watching people get angry. I contend that I do it to better people even though my questions might be blunt. Still, there's some truth to what my mom said -- I do have a tendency to fixate on people who are weaker than I, find their buttons, and exploit them.


    I'm not looking for people to validate me or to create an argument for the OP, just to tell me if they've really thought this about me or not. Please don't pull any punches. Even Jen. I won't be defensive; in fact, I won't even answer unless someone asks me a specific question. Thanks.
    There's a problem with your logic. If your goal really is to "better people," the best way is to first create a comfortable relationship with them. Self-appointed therapists, like yourself, haven't been trained in that skill. As an INTP, I think you know your "reason" for being an a$$hole is a cop out.

    For most of us, no one knows us better than our mothers. Maybe you should give some thought to what she says? Could it be that she actually wants to see you become successful in relationships? Doesn't knowledge on how to accomplish that start with being successful at the longest term ones you've had? If you're not successful in those, what does your future hold?

    How the truth is spoken is a choice.

  10. #40
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w4
    Posts
    7,233

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Seanan View Post
    There's a problem with your logic. If your goal really is to "better people," the best way is to first create a comfortable relationship with them. Self-appointed therapists, like yourself, haven't been trained in that skill. As an INTP, I think you know your "reason" for being an a$$hole is a cop out.
    I think you're right, with the caveat that the formal training is irrelevant. Informal training can be just valid.

    How the truth is spoken is a choice.
    True.

Similar Threads

  1. Am I A Narcissist?
    By FireShield98 in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 07-20-2013, 11:10 PM
  2. I am Not, an INTP
    By Anonymous in forum Welcomes and Introductions
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 05-31-2008, 11:42 PM
  3. Who am I?
    By wyrdsister in forum Welcomes and Introductions
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 04-25-2007, 03:35 PM
  4. Why I am here
    By HilbertSpace in forum Welcomes and Introductions
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 04-25-2007, 01:18 AM
  5. I am the answer.
    By Rhu in forum Welcomes and Introductions
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 04-23-2007, 10:33 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO