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  1. #21
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    As a mother of three children who are growing up very fast please be nice to your mom. We sacrifice a lot and just want to be appreciated. I know how uncool all this sounds to most of you, but being a parent can be incredibly stressful. I worry all the time about our kids and they take up pretty much all my time so to think that one day they may want to take pot shots at my ego is really depressing.

    Edahn this all sounds like a T/F thing between you two. You have the knowledge of MBTI, use it wisely.
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  2. #22
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    I guess this all comes down to whether I investigate to hurt, to heal, or just to understand. Or maybe all 3.

  3. #23
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    It's true but it's hard to stop. When I see her, the only thing that I see is her faults and I want to pick at them. Not just to hurt her, but to understand and solve. I guess it's like popping an emotional pimple. Hard to resist.

    I really think it would be different if she carried herself with confidence. I know how fucked up that sounds, making it HER issue that I have little sympathy, but I do think it's true.
    Could you consider resisting an exercise in developing maturity?
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    Is this an age thing or a maturity thing? Being more on the T side, I tend to evaluate ideas based on their substance, regardless of the source.
    At this point, age is still going to be a factor. An FJ is probably going to have a sense of social appropriateness about this kind of thing which would make it not your place to intrude because you don't have the place of a trusted friend or a peer.

    You do not have to say everything you think just because you think it. If she isn't asking, then it isn't your place to comment and even if she was asking, less would definitely be more.

    She has to work out her own stuff just like you will and she has probably had to make a certain amount of peace and compromise with her situation because life is just like that sometimes. Taking away her coping mechanisms because you think they are no good is really not such a great idea unless you want to devote the next five plus years of your life helping her rebuild new ones.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  4. #24
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Could you consider resisting an exercise in developing maturity?
    If I could clearly see that resisting is the mature thing to do. Do you think it's mature because she's not ready for deep reflection in the manner I've presented it, or is this back to FJ appropriateness? Not that that's fatal or anything, I just want to know.

    Taking away her coping mechanisms because you think they are no good is really not such a great idea unless you want to devote the next five plus years of your life helping her rebuild new ones.
    I would love to help her out. I try, often, to bribe her with different perspectives, but she isn't willing. I get your point, though.

  5. #25
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    I guess this all comes down to whether I investigate to hurt, to heal, or just to understand. Or maybe all 3.
    The fact that you even want to discuss this means you care, so no you're not a narcissistic sadistic SOB.
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  6. #26
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    If I could clearly see that resisting is the mature thing to do. Do you think it's mature because she's not ready for deep reflection in the manner I've presented it, or is this back to FJ appropriateness? Not that that's fatal or anything, I just want to know.
    Both, really. Mostly because it's not appropriate, I suppose. She's an adult. It's not written anywhere that you have to self-actualize if you don't want to. You aren't her therapist, you aren't her spouse, or her friend of thirty years, she doesn't want your involvement so it is no more appropriate for you to try to force your way in than it would be for you to do so with, say, a professor or an employer.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    I would love to help her out. I try, often, to bribe her with different perspectives, but she isn't willing. I get your point, though.
    Helping her out wouldn't be enough. What you are doing is trying to pull little cards out of the bottom of her house. Would she be happier if she let it all fall down and rebuilt it on a better foundation? Probably. Does that mean she's ready to do it right now or that she's ever going to see it as worth the investment? Who knows?

    What I do know is that you are not going to have time to invest what she will need in helping her rebuild and that even if you did, such a relationship would probably inhibit your own growth and development when you should be out building your own life and finding a parter, etc.

    I'm guessing she didn't sacrifice herself and stay with your dad just to see you hindered and stunted by things she long ago accepted as part of the bargain.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  7. #27
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    sorry- just woke up or would have answered the OP before!

    Not sadistic- curious and occasionally a bit too blunt about it for some- but there's a difference between somebody who prods at somebody to hurt them and somebody who prods at somebody out of curiosity as to why they think a certain way.

    Narcissitic? You come across as somewhat intellectually arrogant- like you have perfect faith in your own mind and ideas- It seems to come from the blunt way that you phrase things and the more certain terms you use (not very many qualifiers for you). Some of your posts reveal that you actually are a nice guy underneath who struggles with himself, but then you go back to being somewhat abrasive soon afterwards- almost like you're half ashamed to admit that you're human, even though your human side appears to be quite nice.

    no- you're not a narcissistic, sadistic SOB, but you can come across as one sometimes- I just remind myself that you're a decent person beyond the abrasiveness
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  8. #28
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    I think you're picking at your mom because you see yourself in her, and you want a reason for your being the way you are. I think if you felt better about yourself, you'd have more compassion for her faults, even if they are largely the same as yours. That doesn't mean you're a terrible person in general, but you have to realize that no one likes having their faults pointed out to them, especially when you tell them that watching them interact with their friends embarrasses you. It's just mean. What do you expect her to do, kiss your feet for making her see the light? Knowing you have a problem is only part of the solution, so in essence, you're just hurting her with the "knowledge" and giving her no hope to get better. Look, I'm an INTP, and I have had to learn the hard way, too, that not everyone wants to hear our brilliant insight just because we think it's nifty. Especially not unsolicited. Especially not when it has to do with their flaws.

    I have enjoyed your posts here and on INTPc, and generally think you are very insightful, and you seem like a cool guy to me. In this particular case, I think your mother is right. You weren't thinking of her. You were trying to deal with your own issues through her, without thinking of how it would make her feel.

  9. #29
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    An unhealthy narcissist would not question whether or not he is one. So if you do possess narcissistic tendencies (which I do not doubt, as you've mentioned your father is one).. they certainly aren't as malignant as you think they might be. Of course, I'm sure you've got an ex-girlfriend somewhere who's just dying to give me the 411 on that matter. The only way to know is to examine your close personal relationships.. it's hard to uncover the truth about yourself by asking relative strangers whom of which have never been subject to the sadistic tendencies you allude to.

  10. #30
    にゃん runvardh's Avatar
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    My mother needs all the life advice she can get, but I refrain because it's a pointless excercise in futility. I've only told my mother what I think when she asks and only comment on what she's asking about. I've hurt her repeatedly doing this when she's asking for it. But, yeah, don't offer if it's not asked for. She's an adult, let her hit the wall herself if she's blind to it. You have no responsibility to her.

    However, no, you're not narcissistic or sadistic.
    Dreams are best served manifest and tangible.

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    I accept no responsibility, what so ever, for the fact that I exist; I do, however, accept full responsibility for what I do while I exist.

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