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  1. #11
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    I will fight to my last breath to keep life in my body and those of my loved ones, not hit them over the head with "everyone dies" simply because you are too - callous? - to comfort a friend.

    Sympathy is an honest mercy.

    Sugar-coating is at best a deferral and at worst a lie. There's a difference.

    My father has a cat that is slowly dying from a heart condition. This cat is his favorite, and was the only thing that kept him sane when he was home alone and going through very dark days. We all know that Tommy is going to expire, that he needs a lot of help, that he's never going to be "all better". We *understand* this. There's no delusion there. But never do I go around saying, "Hey, how's that dying cat?" When I looked after Tommy for my father when he was away, I called every day to give updates, positive stories of holding him and talking to him and singing songs to him. It was a comfort to my dad. Domino wouldn't let anything happen to Tommy while Dad was away. And if Tommy did die, he would be with me, and not alone.

    It matters to my Dad. It matters to me more than announcing the final end. I will put a positive angle on Tommy without idiocy for the sake of my father's frayed feelings. Some things are that important, and that in itself is honest.

    And god help me if I EVER compare House to any living human being I know. That's such an extreme and unpleasant example I would never evoke it.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
    Neutral Good
    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
    Inquistive/Limbic
    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  2. #12
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Examples like Domino's help because of this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    I guess it's in the eye of the beholder though..what I considered beyond cruel, they considered oversensitivity on my part.
    When I was younger I was often guilty of saying or doing something that others found hurtful, even though that was never my intention. Upon realising the effect it had on others I changed that but it is still there, in me, I just bite my tongue if what I have to say may be hurtful and employ Fe to word it another way. My aim was never to scar so using Fe is a good thing for others.

    The way you word the OP suggests you see scarring as the aim. That's disturbing. I know there are those out there who toy with people just to see if they can, but generally that's something that goes hand in hand with narcissism imo, which is a separate topic to ENTPness.

    The manipulation part I don't get, people always seem to see that as a negative thing so I'm not sure if my view of manipulation is the same as theirs. I see two kinds of manipulation, one where people use emotions; guilt, shame, etc, I have no respect for that although it can push at my Fe. The other involves using your strengths to get a desirable outcome. If no one is disadvantaged I see no harm in that approach, it's simply common sense to use what you can to get your desired outcome. Deception is a different thing and I'm not cool with that. I know manipulation and ENTP are often put together but I. Just. Don't. Get it.

    Isn't it manipulation when someone uses emotions rather than directness to resolve an issue?


    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    So tell me, ENTPs...is there any way to have that intimate bond with you without harming us both in the process?
    I'm sure there is. Dunno how myself tho. 


    Quote Originally Posted by Domino View Post
    I will fight to my last breath to keep life in my body and those of my loved ones, not hit them over the head with "everyone dies" simply because you are too - callous? - to comfort a friend.

    Sympathy is an honest mercy.

    Sugar-coating is at best a deferral and at worst a lie. There's a difference.
    Personally I would never say "everyone dies" to you because I know it would upset you, the saying I told you in PM once is how I would put it "view the cup as already broken" it's not meant as a comforting thing, more a focus on what you can control and appreciate that which you can't thing. I'm not good at sympathy, to me it can seem fake, if I care then I would not want to patronise that way. You've spoken about this ENTP before so I think that exchange cut you deep and I'm sorry for that but I don't expect he meant to cut you, please don't jump on me for saying that, I know it cut, just hear what I'm saying and make your own decision. All I know is if I had've said those words to you and seen you react with hurt I would have felt so bad because I clearly did not think about the impact before I said them

  3. #13
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    I would never ever dream of jumping on you.

    Even if you tried, you could never sink to his level. It wouldn't be in you to do it. He's almost a House. I would be rid of him if he didn't have the almost sixth-sense way of always finding me.

    Say I walking around with the idea in my head that Tommy would be magically better and I was spending huge amounts of money on it and I was causing a huge rift between us because of my delusions. Telling me plainly that I was mistaken and that the cat is going to die is the only logical thing to do. I value my NT friends for being able to detail the need and put it in pared down language because I can get hoisted by my own emotional involvement sometimes. Nor do my NT friends walk around being cruel and painfully blunt to people simply because they feel like it. That's not a TYPE, that's a jackass.

    If the cup is already broken, how do I approach it? I don't fix it. I don't leave it that way. Or do I do that? Either? Neither? None of the above?
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
    Neutral Good
    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
    Inquistive/Limbic
    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  4. #14
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino View Post
    That's not a TYPE, that's a jackass.
    OMG Get. Away. From. It. There are people, and then there's poison.

    If the cup is already broken, how do I approach it? I don't fix it. I don't leave it that way. Or do I do that? Either? Neither? None of the above?
    Not the intention of the quote, it's "view the cup as already broken", you have something you love, at some point it will break, rather then dismaying when that happens view it as broken now and appreciate it for as long as it isn't.

    Poison however should be irradiated from your life. Stat!

  5. #15
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasper View Post
    OMG Get. Away. From. It. There are people, and then there's poison.
    Could not agree more. One up shot to having a pain disorder is that being in pain against my will puts me in an indignant rage faster than anything and it serves to bounce jerks right out of my arena. What a handy thing. A cut and bleeding dog doesn't hesitate to use its teeth.


    Not the intention of the quote, it's "view the cup as already broken", you have something you love, at some point it will break, rather then dismaying when that happens view it as broken now and appreciate it for as long as it isn't.
    This will take every ounce of strength in me to drag myself through that turn without flying off the road. I see it's merits clearly and wonder if they would be a great deal more humane to my unfortunate possessive default - my jealousy of life, my jealousy *for* life. To reframe the breakdown will be a pivotal battle.

    But one worth making, even if I now lack the strength to make it stick.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
    Neutral Good
    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
    Inquistive/Limbic
    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  6. #16
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    I would also add that you shouldn't ask for honesty when we're pissed, because you'll get much more than you thought you would( whether it's actually true or not, we'll say what we perceive). Sounds like a threat, more meant as a precautionary tale. /projection
    Likes classic-misdirection liked this post

  7. #17
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Thanks for your thoughts, opinions and comments everyone. They've helped to clarify something in my mind and a slightly askew interaction with an ENTP male today, made me realise how simple the problem is. I LOVE TypeC for its Aha! moments.

    It's our functions, particularly Ne-dom. Ne is so random with underlying resonances of Fe-tert that make it so difficult for me to grasp. Add in the strength of inferior Si which states that things `must be`and that doesn`t help the mix.

    If I flip the order around to INTPs, their Ti-dom explicitness pulls in their random Ne so they`re easier to understand and many, particularly the males, shunt their inferior Fe to dark, dank places that no one can reach, not even themselves.

    I should add that when there isn`t understanding, Ni goes wild trying to figure it out and comes up with some plausible and implausible explanations.
    Last edited by bechimo; 02-21-2011 at 05:58 PM. Reason: Last paragraph.

  8. #18
    / nonsequitur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino View Post
    I will fight to my last breath to keep life in my body and those of my loved ones, not hit them over the head with "everyone dies" simply because you are too - callous? - to comfort a friend.
    It's not a type thing. My ENFJ mother told me exactly the same thing (word for word) the day after I lost a close friend to leukemia and was on the phone to her long-distance, trying to keep from breaking down. Then she quickly hung up, obviously because we didn't have a relationship where I could talk about my feelings.

    Sometimes I think the MBTI builds such inaccurately superficial images of people that it means absolutely nothing. My mother would probably comfort a stranger, but there's no way that she'd comfort me. Our relationship is just "not like that".

  9. #19
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    You're all wrong, entp's are born evil !

    In the morning we eat a pile of crushed glass and we shover with steel woll !

    [youtube="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pYtxD92SpY"].[/youtube]
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  10. #20
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Entropie ftw.

    That's you as a baby, isn't it. Confess. *laughs*
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
    Neutral Good
    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
    Inquistive/Limbic
    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

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